From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#43830: keyboard layout handling incompatible with rest of the OS Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2020 11:50:00 +0300 Message-ID: <83362p85l3.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h7r78a5y.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87imbn2iwm.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87y2kisawy.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83362qa073.fsf@gnu.org> <87blhdrhww.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6269"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 43830@debbugs.gnu.org, pogonyshev@gmail.com To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 08 10:51:21 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kQRdv-0001TH-Oy for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 10:51:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57302 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQRdu-0004h6-Pr for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 04:51:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46340) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQRde-0004gq-KT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 04:51:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:47165) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQRde-0000af-9s for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 04:51:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQRde-0004qj-9B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 04:51:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2020 08:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43830 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 43830-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43830.160214700318567 (code B ref 43830); Thu, 08 Oct 2020 08:51:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 43830) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Oct 2020 08:50:03 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58711 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQRcg-0004pP-Qp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 04:50:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39260) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQRce-0004oj-Bl for 43830@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 04:50:01 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33122) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQRcX-0000IJ-W4; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 04:49:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2616 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kQRcX-0003RV-DU; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 04:49:53 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87blhdrhww.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Wed, 07 Oct 2020 22:01:47 +0300) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:190070 Archived-At: > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: pogonyshev@gmail.com, 43830@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 22:01:47 +0300 > > >> We already discussed this 10 years ago, and the conclusion was that > >> it would require too fundamental changes in how Emacs processes keystrokes. > > > > Can you point me to that discussion? > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-11/msg01237.html Thanks. My take out of that discussion: . There's a patch in https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-11/msg01384.html which seems to allow what Paul wanted with single characters with modifiers, such as C-z or M-s. That patch has a disadvantage that it disables AltGr, but if we install that patch as an optional feature, perhaps the disadvantage is not so bad? . The issue is more general than just a single character with a modifier, because key sequences such as "C-x z" will still not work: the 'z' will become the corresponding non-ASCII character when a non-US keyboard layout is used. Therefore, the only general solution is for Emacs to be aware of the keyboard layout in use, and map the characters internally to their ASCII equivalents using that layout. (The discussions also included LEIM features, but I think that is a separate issue.)