From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 14:45:25 +0200 Message-ID: <8335k9u4yi.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0drz1jv.fsf@gnu.org> <33A4238A-C948-4A8E-BADB-689142143CED@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17835"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jonas@bernoul.li, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 23 13:52:17 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr7w-0004Pc-Lu for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:52:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55332 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr7v-00008x-9O for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:52:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46680) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr22-0005Ax-CZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:46:12 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:50278) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr1u-0008M4-5M for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:46:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr1u-0000m9-4S for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:46:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.16456203362937 (code B ref 53316); Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:46:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2022 12:45:36 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44173 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr1U-0000lJ-61 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:45:36 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39842) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr1S-0000l6-Vq for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:45:35 -0500 Original-Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=50134 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr1M-0008GP-TB; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:45:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=CFR2kn2CdfXLQwjh6qjDVZsnXRlPjWJrIJ4Fa8rXb8E=; b=ZXDA28sMVCRA Oc7TKVtTIE0l60UK1KUGx/+mPIr8GKJmKqcgAl3dijvH9KsS/T13GfUpKJ7m4o46Zd3iVlBkKFqYY b8WkJSnm2BVfdoChFbGyPj8xS2rPAICu0xYsFKifaMxMw3vivrfIZiHfsp7u/W6UY5JPmrQO9KV79 A+17UhissRIY1FnFk6YBK2F5xqCs8L9Gwzq5kwbqMtSia88bqbUXlnp9QRdjjxb4zXDqMKMdDHqye MskFnp2b8nJSu0L6Utu1gW6Fu1e1H9BbjHxGDRjW2zwsJhdAgFRUs3ekQYomtE6ngpxJCAWP07jYx YYPKO8lqD/dIrkgmMev0Gw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3429 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr19-00038k-CR; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:45:22 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Wed, 23 Feb 2022 01:45:33 -0500) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:227508 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jonas@bernoul.li, > p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 01:45:33 -0500 > > > Removing its manual is only acceptable to me if we also remove > > the package and all its uses. > > Lots of packages don't have manuals. Indeed, it is undesirable not to > have the Texinfo manual, but not a disaster. It is in this case, IMO. I suggest that you take a quick look at transient.el and consider whether it is easy to grasp without a decent manual. My firm opinion is that it is very hard for the uninitiated. > > For future releases, we indeed hope to see the problems of > > conversion from Org resolved, > > That would be a very good advance; but because it's difficult and > because I've seen people neglect the issue before, could you ask > the people doing this to show me the spec they want to implement? Jonas explicitly said he is working on this, so I find it hard to believe that this won't be solved soon enough, worst case in time for Emacs 29.