From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#66706: [PATCH] Automatic elisp dialect insertion Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 09:26:06 +0300 Message-ID: <8334xwfuo1.fsf@gnu.org> References: <17C83052-7946-45DE-B660-DA7EB82001B0@gmail.com> <83sf61mb54.fsf@gnu.org> <98CD592C-0E82-4795-8168-2B5E597FF7A7@gmail.com> <8334xzlvy9.fsf@gnu.org> <83v8avjuv8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edhicjgi.fsf@web.de> <83zg05how1.fsf@gnu.org> <87pm10sqnw.fsf@web.de> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35310"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: dmitry@gutov.dev, mattias.engdegard@gmail.com, 66706@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 27 08:26:50 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qwGJ0-00090F-Dp for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2023 08:26:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qwGIi-00061c-IW; Fri, 27 Oct 2023 02:26:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qwGIh-00061N-8l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2023 02:26:31 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qwGIh-00070j-0n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2023 02:26:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qwGJB-0003zR-Rl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2023 02:27:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 06:27:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 66706 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 66706-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B66706.169838799815302 (code B ref 66706); Fri, 27 Oct 2023 06:27:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 66706) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Oct 2023 06:26:38 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34951 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qwGIo-0003yi-Bl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2023 02:26:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43670) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qwGIj-0003yQ-Rp for 66706@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2023 02:26:37 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qwGI7-0006wG-TL; Fri, 27 Oct 2023 02:25:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=rzFeBoRLlWJklIoVbPOvpT35BSUxfaUCTLz+tRWjWCM=; b=JxQCB0g8WNHR pT/cN/vl+0m7uQkom1fEW/zyNkGVdMT5+4gIvPDuktIxXWVWyNAlgzr9awi2Tk4edGhsZTtFre5ks LAYAo3OOKs4k3Q1hwzmG7sSJNkQEFEyj0Gfo3Lu4RGi9vKPxzH62LiFIe2H8wacuq9WAWjbL0n2I9 BaujZlbYdV4Fz1Rmi+jI9jQZg0xT8MKpB68zDJnBjMOEhsfX9D1rWshDQCmK9bD9Oj7L/ZKQcXZKp 8cc1OuOreCWRFzfVa3Zyr6eqQ00Qxj5kJ/sB177NKcHimirwRpgu7s7zRssugISI4lSBb5uZvcKC2 Fj3M8dl4mCsmXSnalHW4vA==; In-Reply-To: <87pm10sqnw.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Fri, 27 Oct 2023 05:14:11 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:273340 Archived-At: > From: Michael Heerdegen > Cc: dmitry@gutov.dev, mattias.engdegard@gmail.com, 66706@debbugs.gnu.org, > stefankangas@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 05:14:11 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > > Short version of my reply: Emacs users are a different group than Elisp > > > package developers. Let's help them by forcing a lexical binding cookie > > > in the config file instead of simply making their Emacs potentially not > > > starting up. > > > > If this is about init files, we could instead make processing init > > files assume lexical-binding by default. > > That's exactly what we should avoid because it can make Emacs not start > up for init files that require the current default of dynamical binding. How many of init files do indeed require dynamic binding? And why? If a new Emacs version refuses to start because something in the init files goes against some new Emacs feature, we have --debug-init and other facilities to debug and fix those. Why should lexical-binding be considered different from any other backward-incompatible change that we sometimes do? In any case, how will injecting the cookie help those users, exactly? If people who write init files don't understand the implications of lexical-binding, their Emacs will fail to start, something that you think is a catastrophe. And if they do understand it, their init files are already compatible with lexical-binding. > We also should not assume dynamical binding: lexical binding is the > default. Emacs should not guess: it should ask the user and then add a > cookie. That's my point. Your point seems to be incompatible with our plan, which is to turn on lexical-binding by default at some point. We don't want to have a schism of two separate flavors of Lisp, we want only one. The current situation is a transitional period, not the ideal. You seem to be suggesting that we should keep this situation forever, and that is not what we decided, AFAIU.