From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#31597: 27.0.50; Annoying ' to =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=99?= translation Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 20:42:53 +0300 Message-ID: <831sdx806a.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20180527093215.6039.qmail@mail.muc.de> <83efhx84r1.fsf@gnu.org> <20180527171217.GA11447@ACM> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1527442928 28390 195.159.176.226 (27 May 2018 17:42:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 17:42:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 31597@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 27 19:42:04 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzgA-0007HW-IW for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 19:42:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52796 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMziH-0005vW-PC for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:44:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34572) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMziA-0005vP-MR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:44:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzi5-0004wU-VZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:44:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:43317) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzi5-0004wJ-RK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:44:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzi5-0005Yl-KX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:44:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 17:44:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 31597 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 31597-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B31597.152744299421313 (code B ref 31597); Sun, 27 May 2018 17:44:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 31597) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 May 2018 17:43:14 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51214 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzhK-0005Xh-K7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:43:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:43496) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzhJ-0005XU-1Z for 31597@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:43:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzh9-0004eS-8z for 31597@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:43:08 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:52448) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzh9-0004eH-5d; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:43:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2585 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzh8-0001he-Iu; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:43:03 -0400 In-reply-to: <20180527171217.GA11447@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Sun, 27 May 2018 17:12:17 +0000) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:146607 Archived-At: > Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 17:12:17 +0000 > Cc: eller.helmut@gmail.com, 31597@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > > The person behind the change, Paul Eggert, simply pushed it through > > > without first securing agreement from Emacs as a whole, and had the > > > political skills to prevent a consensus on the matter prevailing. > > > This misrepresents what Paul did and say, and I think is grossly > > unfair to him. > > This was a highly controversial change. Paul could first have committed > the changes on a branch and invited comment. Saying this is a far cry from accusing Paul in nasty political tricks and in deliberately sneaking controversial code behind our backs. > You weren't really involved in the fight against this. I was, and it > exhausted me. I hear you, and you should know very well that I'm not too enthusiastic about this change, either. But we should be able to disagree without name-calling. > > I wish we avoided such ad-hominem attacks, just because we disagree. > > Eli, my view of things is NOT an ad-hominem. An ad-hominem is when one > argues by attacking a _person_. My paragraph above does not do this: it > criticizes Paul's _actions_. I think it is a fair summary of what > actually happened. The wording you've chosen to do that is what I hope we could avoid.