From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#57113: 29.0.50; Confusing icon customization interface Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 20:49:58 +0300 Message-ID: <831qtlnygp.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h72kxq18.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <87h72kxq18.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735e1o4tg.fsf@gnus.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10501"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 57113@debbugs.gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 12 19:51:55 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oMYp8-0002Uc-TJ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 19:51:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33114 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oMYp7-0001f4-Mw for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 13:51:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50914) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oMYoI-0001cg-CZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 13:51:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:40889) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oMYoH-0003ch-Ve for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 13:51:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oMYoH-0001na-Oc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 13:51:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 17:51:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 57113 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 57113-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B57113.16603266096835 (code B ref 57113); Fri, 12 Aug 2022 17:51:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 57113) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Aug 2022 17:50:09 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58871 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oMYnR-0001m9-4U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 13:50:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37754) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oMYnP-0001lt-HW for 57113@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 13:50:07 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51918) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oMYnK-0003Hy-3C; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 13:50:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=mVAmKYcI+vVtqkqi3OC0tw8TG6UXzS4LAWPSTcnZnj8=; b=QagBhyrdd8v7 8R/IB677nwKyeZik6JdguEUDJ05gDbwsZn6LgAqTcS3lYLHoB47RybOpQZA1QMBWTJdb2pch0wcNh xQsikQ72raxeV3LQpXTDp/eedsC0CmhuIDzrdVV5WgHpcgNuh697pYR5hmM0kR6zAMq+w48Spz+Bt D+3msUvMzQHRowvytgOJu3bpYgmDCGcZFLoG4rgPkI8zhBK4uw6D5y/oPsqp5jQxn0IGf02gZXb5b PA0KIOngMUBnHffkp93YufgqcUdDaxb8xyKs8fUcie6f4+VZ93N1zqOPY8MSI5xUVnxEcbTKpNJSq CkQCDWPXqiqkPV1KF4EX9g==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4589 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oMYnJ-0001jG-Gt; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 13:50:01 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8735e1o4tg.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 12 Aug 2022 17:32:43 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:239450 Archived-At: > Cc: 57113@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 17:32:43 +0200 > > Po Lu writes: > > > The labels on the various fields should also be more informative than > > "Repeat", "String" and "Plist"; those only tell you what the fields are, > > and not what the fields do. > > If your point is that Customize sucks for complex structures, you're > totally correct. I think we shouldn't offer complex structures as values of user options to begin with. It makes no sense to me to require users to understand such structures to be able to customize the respective features. I think the user options we have whose values are such complex structures are simply cases of lazy thinking: it is much easier for a Lisp programmer to make a defcustom that accepts such complex values than to try to factor them into several simpler ones. We should flatly reject such user options when they are introduced.