From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jambunathan K Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9336: 24.0.50; No way to input character #xbb4 using ta-itrans Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:25:28 +0530 Message-ID: <817h5aarsv.fsf@gmail.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1316091404 14471 80.91.229.12 (15 Sep 2011 12:56:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 12:56:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 9336@debbugs.gnu.org To: Kenichi Handa Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 15 14:56:39 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4BUc-0000aG-P2 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 14:56:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47485 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R4BUc-0007dD-Dj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:56:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:36038) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R4BUU-0007TY-62 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:56:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R4BUP-0006Lx-2l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:56:30 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:35840) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R4BUO-0006Lt-QQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:56:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4BYs-0002xM-C0; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:01:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <81aab2socv.fsf@gmail.com> Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9336 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 9336-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9336.13160916319848 (code B ref 9336); Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:01:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9336) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Sep 2011 13:00:31 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4BYM-0002YI-Kh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:00:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gw0-f44.google.com ([74.125.83.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4BYI-0002Tr-4X for 9336@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:00:28 -0400 Original-Received: by gwb20 with SMTP id 20so1701800gwb.17 for <9336@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 05:55:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=35ls7MksxGFQlMxzlMmxy457T7eBuviZ4aiNAcmQR6o=; b=gl69TmFbGwhu9R9/9O20HUq0USsUf5cWj+vC9USjSYAN2whVDmsgC9znOMG/yevzVW nm28FkLasqymLhyly1Ed3bfG7/lRk7YxOEPCxsCz1gN11RZUm427GpqtUYngs9n9gg3Y mNLSB7VRlzjQCNUpg49tFfwFsRf0noUt6UYdg= Original-Received: by 10.68.58.6 with SMTP id m6mr1586592pbq.215.1316091346737; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 05:55:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from JAMBU-NETBOOK ([115.241.119.204]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e3sm22772276pbi.7.2011.09.15.05.55.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 15 Sep 2011 05:55:45 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (windows-nt) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:01:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:51181 Archived-At: Kenichi Handa writes: > In article <81vcto4mn5.fsf@gmail.com>, Jambunathan K > writes: > >> Kenichi Handa writes: >> > In article <81aab2socv.fsf@gmail.com>, Jambunathan K >> > writes: >> > >>>> Using input method tamil-itrans, there is no easy way to input charact= er >>>> #xbb4. >> > >> > It seems that usually "J" or "z" is assigned for that >> > character in the Tamil itrans system, right? >> > >> > If so, please try the attached patch. Does it work? > >> The attached patch works fine. > > Thank you for testing it. I'll commit that change soon. >> I was trying tamil-itrans for the first time and I find quail-help to be >> a bit overwhelming. There are lots of characters that is displayed and >> it is difficult to find the one that I am interested in inputting. In >> some sense it is very confusing for first time user. > >> I believe it would be lot more helpful if the input table for vowels and >> consonants be displayed upfront. I am attaching a table that I created >> for myself during the process. You will find that the characters are >> displayed in their natural order. > > The current descriptions for *-itrans input methods are what > generated automatically from the corresponding mapping > table, so they may not be sufficient for users. Thank you > for the suggestion. I'll add it to the description of > tamil-itrans. By the way, isn't it necessary to have a > column for dependent vowels? Or, is to obvious for users > from independent vowels? (Please refer pages 83 and 84 of the pdf file attached earlier) It would be helpful to include the tables in the order given below. It would be highly desirable that they are enumerated NOT in the unicode order but in their natural order (i.e., the order in which we are taught to recite these alphabets in our schools) High Usage Characters =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D + Independent Vowels Table + Aytham [1] This table will contain the 12 "Independent vowels" FOLLOWED BY the letter "Aytham" (0B83). The unicode order for these alphabets is the SAME as their natural order (leaving aside those marked reserved) + Consonants Table [2] This table will contain 18 of the characters listed under "Consonants". The unicode order for these is DIFFERENT from their natural order (leaving aside those marked reserved) Some 2D-table representation similar to the one listed under "Unicode Tamil Syllabary" in the below URL could be used. "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_alphabet#Tamil_in_Unicode" If that is not aesthetically pleasing, then just listing the Row and Column Labels should suffice. Particularly, I like the fact that the Vertical Labels (the Row Labels) in the above table use the base form of Consonants - (i.e., Consonant devoid of it's trailing vowel `a' which is represented by a "dot" on top of tamil character- I believe this is achieved by using TAMIL SIGN VIRAMA) The above two tables plus an an illustration of how to enter tamil text should suffice to get the point across to the user. So some suggestion along the lines of: "To enter =E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=A3=E0=AE=95=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=95=E0=AE=AE=E0=AF=8D t= ype vaNakkam" (The word used above is the "HELLO" entry for Tamil) Medium Usage =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D + Grantha Letters [3] This table will contain the remaining 5 consonants + one compound alphabet designated with input method 'x'. - I see the letter 0BB6 as a rectangle. Not sure whether this is a bug in Emacs or my local installation. - I don't know how to enter the character - described as "common ligature 'Sri' (=E0=AE=B8=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AF=80 =C5=9Ar=C4=AB)" - = As the Wikipedia entry clearly says it is a commonly used character (equivalent to English "Sir/Madam"). (See "Usage of other lingual consonants" section under previously referred to Wikipedia entry) + Various/Miscellaneous [4] - Not sure what these are called. I have just called it miscellaneuous. + Dependent Vowel Signs, Two-part dependent Vowel signs - I find it difficult to relate to these characters with their consonant component greyed out. These NEED NOT BE LISTED as part of the help text. The tables listed below are mostly of interest to very niche users like language scholars or for traditional uses like local calendars, marriage invitations, temple festivals etc. They are not used by a layman for day-to-day communication. In some sense they could be given low priority. Honestly, speaking I have never used them in my 35 years of existence. So I don't have any fixed opinions on these. Listing them here merely for the sake of completion. Nice/Rare Usage =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D + Digits and Numerics [5] - I find that I am unable to insert the following alphabets with M-x ucs-insert. TAB completion doesn't offer these characters (they are listed in the unicode table though) - TAMIL NUMBER TEN - TAMIL NUMBER ONE HUNDRED - TAMIL NUMBER ONE THOUSAND Also I find that I am unable to ucs-insert TAMIL DIGIT ZERO. I am not sure whether that is same the regular arabic/english `0'. + Tamil Symbols [6] (Tamil Symbols, Currency Symbol and Tamil Symbol) - When I ucs-insert them, I only see rectangular boxes. Not sure whether it is a problem with Emacs distribution or my local installation. Just curious, how can I display these characters within Emacs. Additional Note: Currency symbol is something that I personally recognize. May be it could be grouped under "Miscellaneous" table.. + Reserved=20 - 0BE4, 0BE5=20 =20=20=20=20 No idea what these characters are. =20=20=20=20 > --- > Kenichi Handa > handa@m17n.org Footnotes: [1] Independent Vowels Table + Aytham (13 items) 0B85, =E0=AE=85, a 0B86, =E0=AE=86, A or aa 0B87, =E0=AE=87, i 0B88, =E0=AE=88, I or ii 0B89, =E0=AE=89, u 0B8A, =E0=AE=8A, U or uu 0B8E, =E0=AE=8E, e 0B8F, =E0=AE=8F, E 0B90, =E0=AE=90, ai 0B92, =E0=AE=92, o 0B93, =E0=AE=93, O 0B94, =E0=AE=94, au 0B83, =E0=AE=83, H [2] Consonants Table (18 items) 0B95, =E0=AE=95, ka 0B99, =E0=AE=99, N^a or ~Na 0B9A, =E0=AE=9A, cha 0B9E, =E0=AE=9E, JNa or ~na 0B9F, =E0=AE=9F, Ta 0BA3, =E0=AE=A3, Na 0BA4, =E0=AE=A4, ta 0BA8, =E0=AE=A8, na 0BAA, =E0=AE=AA, pa 0BAE, =E0=AE=AE, ma 0BAF, =E0=AE=AF, ya 0BB0, =E0=AE=B0, ra 0BB2, =E0=AE=B2, la 0BB5, =E0=AE=B5, wa or va 0BB4, =E0=AE=B4, 0BB3, =E0=AE=B3, La or lda 0BB1, =E0=AE=B1, rha 0BA9, =E0=AE=A9, nha [3] Grantha Letters (5 + 1 items) 0BB6, =E0=AE=B6, ????=20 0B9C, =E0=AE=9C, ja=20=20=20 0BB7, =E0=AE=B7, Sha or shha 0BB8, =E0=AE=B8, sa 0BB9, =E0=AE=B9, ha ????, =E0=AE=95=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B7, x=20 [4] Various (1 item) 0BD0, =E0=AF=90,=20 [5] Digits and Numerics 0BE6, =E0=AF=A6=E0=AF=A6=E0=AF=A6=E0=AF=A6,=20 0BE7, =E0=AF=A7 0BE8, =E0=AF=A8 0BE9, =E0=AF=A9 0BEA, =E0=AF=AA 0BEB, =E0=AF=AB 0BEC, =E0=AF=AC 0BED, =E0=AF=AD 0BEE, =E0=AF=AE 0BEF, =E0=AF=AF 0BF0,=20 0BF1,=20 0BF2,=20 [6] Tamil Symbols 0BF3, =E0=AF=B3 0BF4, =E0=AF=B4 0BF5, =E0=AF=B5 0BF6, =E0=AF=B6 0BF7, =E0=AF=B7 0BF8, =E0=AF=B8 0BF9, =E0=AF=B9 0BFA, =E0=AF=BA,=20