From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jambunathan K Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9336: 24.0.50; No way to input character #xbb4 using ta-itrans Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 18:30:59 +0530 Message-ID: <814nzwom7o.fsf@gmail.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1317214956 18346 80.91.229.12 (28 Sep 2011 13:02:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 13:02:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 9336@debbugs.gnu.org To: Kenichi Handa Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 28 15:02:26 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R8tmI-00040o-Dm for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 15:02:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33851 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R8tmH-00062P-K3 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 09:02:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:44170) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R8tm9-00061s-Vo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 09:02:19 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R8tm4-0002My-0O for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 09:02:13 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:37026) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R8tm3-0002Mu-Uw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 09:02:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R8tmv-0001jh-VF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 09:03:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <81aab2socv.fsf@gmail.com> Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 13:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9336 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 9336-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9336.13172149466626 (code B ref 9336); Wed, 28 Sep 2011 13:03:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9336) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2011 13:02:26 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R8tmL-0001io-9S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 09:02:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yi0-f44.google.com ([209.85.218.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R8tmF-0001ib-F8 for 9336@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 09:02:22 -0400 Original-Received: by yic13 with SMTP id 13so6171630yic.3 for <9336@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 06:01:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/nm8HTX+wDcKbmDm2qwz89GgZZH4aMb6a2lanhnqK04=; b=GXkjru5NM70MyQiTk7MYfEQlMcM4Dq/2ryL63brkPQfUYzgmdggykaxMc+WRIcjmF5 2r+AXic5LJafAm30w5EDdQKw2LI+TH6vyIU2Mgamst6h5cigrqlzRP9PDN7PGAf7SIMQ qU0J3aGVbMA5xFF2/btN5Uf16S+klEJ5EU3tg= Original-Received: by 10.68.122.133 with SMTP id ls5mr25907751pbb.57.1317214883733; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 06:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from JAMBU-NETBOOK ([115.241.22.183]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ji3sm7588463pbc.2.2011.09.28.06.01.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 28 Sep 2011 06:01:21 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (windows-nt) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 09:03:01 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:51959 Archived-At: > I think we have not yet settled this issue: > "z" or "zh" for =E0=AE=B4 My recommendation is that we don't make a one-off change.=20 I am largely OK with `z' and `J' offered by you primarily because I see that entry listed in the table linked below http://www.aczoom.com/itrans/html/tamil/node5.html [1] I see that ta-itrans mappings in Emacs is largely in agreement with the mappings in the above table save for few characters [2]. So my vote is for aligning Emacs's table with AC's ITRANS tables. I concur with Vijay's comment that the choices made in AC's table are less than perfect [3]. My little research, suggests that that there are multiple contemporary and competing implementations for ta-itrans. Under these circumstances, it is important that the Emacs' implementation stick to just a single system. It would be wonderful if we could get in touch with the original author of ta-itrans and understand the source of Emacs's mappings. When time permits, I will spend some time looking at some authoritative websites and try to form an opinion [4]. >> > That's strange. My Tamil Lohit font is Version 2.4.4 (older >> > than yours), and it displays the line for #0BB6 correctly. > >> Do you see heart-shaped strcutures in that line much similar to what you >> see in ta-itrans-1.png that I attached earlier? > > No, I attach my image file. I think that heart-shaped glyph > is actually U+25CC (DOTTED CIRCLE) used to display an > isolated combining character. Which version of m17n-db are > you using? I am on Windows XP. So I believe the equivalent of m17n-db is uniscribe.=20 For the sake of record, the following messages suggest that #0BB6 is not properly rendered on Windows XP. It is apparently fixed on Windows Vista. http://unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2007-m07/0004.html http://unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2007-m07/0005.html Jambunathan K. Footnotes:=20 [1] This page seems to me to be near authoritative as far as ITRANS is concerned and is often cited in articles of any note.=20 For example, the Wikipedia article=20 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITRANS and The Indian Institute of Technology, Madras article=20 - http://acharya.iitm.ac.in/multi_sys/transli/schemes.php [2] Comparison between Emacs and AC's ITRANS tables. Minor differences are marked with `x' and major differences are marked with `xx'. In effect there are only 5 major differences. character Emacs AC's ITRANS Difference =E0=AE=85 a a =E0=AE=86 A or aa A or AA =E0=AE=87 i i =E0=AE=88 I or ii I or ii =E0=AE=89 u u =E0=AE=8A U or uu U or uu =E0=AE=8E e e =E0=AE=8F E E =E0=AE=90 ai ai =E0=AE=92 o o =E0=AE=93 O O =E0=AE=94 au au =E0=AE=83 H q xx =E0=AE=B8=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AF=80 SRI srii = xx =E0=AE=95=E0=AF=8D k k or g x =E0=AE=99=E0=AF=8D N^ or ~N N^ or ~N =E0=AE=9A=E0=AF=8D ch ch =E0=AE=9E=E0=AF=8D JN or ~n ~n x =E0=AE=9F=E0=AF=8D T T or Th x =E0=AE=A3=E0=AF=8D N N =E0=AE=A4=E0=AF=8D t t or th x =E0=AE=A8=E0=AF=8D n n =E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=8D p p or b x =E0=AE=AE=E0=AF=8D m m =E0=AE=AF=E0=AF=8D y y =E0=AE=B0=E0=AF=8D r r =E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=8D l l =E0=AE=B5=E0=AF=8D v or w v or w =E0=AE=B4=E0=AF=8D z or J z or J =E0=AE=B3=E0=AF=8D L or ld L x =E0=AE=B1=E0=AF=8D rh R xx =E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D nh ^n xx =E0=AE=9C=E0=AF=8D j j =E0=AE=B6=E0=AF=8D sh xx =E0=AE=B7=E0=AF=8D Sh or shh Sh x =E0=AE=B8=E0=AF=8D s s =E0=AE=B9=E0=AF=8D h h =E0=AE=95=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B7=E0=AF=8D x x or ksha= x [3] Emacs being customizable, I hope it allows for users to tweak the stock ITRANS table to suit his taste. For example, it should be possible for one to create custom ITRANS table based on the table at the bottom of this page. http://www.yash.info/indianLanguageConverter/tamil.html (The above table was pointed to by Vijay) Personally I find some of the mappings in Vijay's table are less than satisfactory to my tastes. [4] For example, "International Forum for Information Technology in Tamil" - http://infitt.org/