From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Konstantin Kharlamov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#74382: `compile-first` Make rule is no longer using `load-prefer-newer` Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2024 20:24:08 +0300 Message-ID: <7e381be45c124103de80aa70ce21726706788988.camel@yandex.ru> References: <6bc3a410f0857c3e3433070ac19deaf7eae88c63.camel@yandex.ru> <31dfd7d1c1c19d3fff5609b86ce85c1533a84af0.camel@yandex.ru> <861pz9x45w.fsf@gnu.org> <86zflxvoux.fsf@gnu.org> <86y11hvn5r.fsf@gnu.org> <86serpvlba.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11597"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Evolution 3.54.1 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, 74382@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 17 18:25:27 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tCj1a-0002pH-B1 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 18:25:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tCj1L-0005hc-RQ; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 12:25:12 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tCj1G-0005fC-HZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 12:25:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tCj1D-0006F4-4K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 12:25:06 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debbugs.gnu.org; s=debbugs-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Date:From:To:Subject; bh=EfFo4fe3NuAFcvNm+WQLCHsw1asL8aPFCWP1xJSNY+s=; b=P84gRmFo0Wco+fIuOhjyb0pduQQJmuuTIyIfN2ykz7OWxTHpQAK/yqiL+AiQR5kMfHfaV6AeMERuHtgFiaWDadvMOzKm91mLTc/mAfbngb5PRG/z4cuRELKgRLbPSLhU9XEINo+a8AJvcHir3ZF7glG7NThCgmVMcQdRJWhL+JxgpM0TfDZCUZd2FmTxvs82vTH8WaEel1Hfk/PzKPoCqu04L49osTmit4YZS5yN/yLmhVUyJcAVa+3jd+l7+V8DgIXUYHy527JZPll7wqbnVkQXG122aIEestKukfehhbznL6owcbLI0OAo1mjb49SUMiK5KOxVwykKnN/sOevF8Q==; Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tCj1C-0004uZ-OI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 12:25:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Konstantin Kharlamov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2024 17:25:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 74382 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 74382-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B74382.173186425918819 (code B ref 74382); Sun, 17 Nov 2024 17:25:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 74382) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2024 17:24:19 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58427 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tCj0V-0004tT-E6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 12:24:19 -0500 Original-Received: from forward501b.mail.yandex.net ([178.154.239.145]:54310) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tCj0S-0004tC-WB for 74382@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 12:24:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-36.sas.yp-c.yandex.net (mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-36.sas.yp-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c24:18aa:0:640:5723:0]) by forward501b.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTPS id 6D4C660EEF; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 20:24:10 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: by mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-36.sas.yp-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id 8OTjiJWOhSw0-G4RECJ8w; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 20:24:09 +0300 X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1731864249; bh=EfFo4fe3NuAFcvNm+WQLCHsw1asL8aPFCWP1xJSNY+s=; h=References:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID; b=xBcbgy6jyDI02HEDhw/4oSXqYeIS0odi1MHb6RsQCp9oPsEwo1dyKrbr4NjwRVNTA QLOWdPdbL/gwkvCjnv1eH4D3qN0zsuvB9SsbMt+XBave+GWoID+23XZ/o/rQ6DMNc8 23OF9og0C/CjZwOsPbg/aBC/HxPN0BVkDrSG5I4o= Authentication-Results: mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-36.sas.yp-c.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru In-Reply-To: <86serpvlba.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:295551 Archived-At: On Sun, 2024-11-17 at 19:09 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Konstantin Kharlamov > > Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, 74382@debbugs.gnu.org > > Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2024 19:46:25 +0300 > >=20 > > On Sun, 2024-11-17 at 18:29 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > We already have a special target for that: maintainer-clean.=C2=A0 > > > There's > > > no need to make such confusing differences between what "make > > > clean" > > > does in a tarball and in Git.=C2=A0 That's a standard GNU target, so > > > it > > > should do what the GNU Coding Standards say, and do it > > > consistently. > >=20 > > GNU Coding Standard section for `make clean` says, quoting: > >=20 > > > Delete all files [=E2=80=A6] that are normally created by building th= e > > program. However, don=E2=80=99t delete the files that record the > > configuration. > > Also preserve files that could be made by building, but normally > > aren=E2=80=99t > > because the distribution comes with them. > >=20 > > The "git distribution" doesn't come with .elc files, hence .elc > > files > > should be removed by `make clean` if run in the git repository. > > That's > > what the standard says. >=20 > There's no "Git distribution", so this doesn't apply. The Cambridge Dictionary defines word "distribution" as=C2=B9: > the process of giving things out to several people, or spreading or supplying something Git repo provides people with Emacs sources, so that does apply. > Once again, it is more important to me that "make clean" does the > same > in every case than anything else. >=20 > > This "don't clean elc files during `make clean`" hurts Emacs devs > > and > > contributors, while gaining nothing in return. >=20 > I disagree. Well, since we ruled out the distro packagers as the auditory for the `make clean`, who else do you see would benefit from it? > > > You will have to get used to this curiosity of the Emacs build > > > system, > > > sorry.=C2=A0 The main audience of the build stuff in Git is Emacs > > > developers, so everyone else have to adapt. > >=20 > > I don't think Emacs developers are using release tarballs, so this > > "curiosity" isn't helping them. >=20 > The curiosity is for those who build from tarballs, whoever they are. Here's the thing, the `foo clean` target in any build system in 95% of cases in my experience is only used to work around the bugs in how the project set up the build system, more specifically when compilation command doesn't rebuild project properly. In Emacs we already know that the bug is only with those COMPILE_FIRST files. A release tarball user is very unlikely to modify exactly those files and exactly in a way to would lead to the problem. Hence the user is very unlikely to use `make clean` whatsoever. And then, even if they do catch the bug, they again *do* want to get rid of the offending files. So overall, I just don't see who would ever want `make clean` not to remove `.elc` files, even among tarball users.