unofficial mirror of bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: 30241@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#30241: Emacs 26.0.91: "Generalized variables" are not defined.
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:54:58 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <7e0daea2-f6e1-4b57-a439-df03b35aac3e@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180210215841.GB4537@ACM>

> > > I think you'll see a difference - it is, IMO, "significantly
> > > different".
> 
> > Actually, no, I didn't.  I do see some additional explanations that
> > might have helped Alan understand the issue, but nothing
> > "significant".  So much so that I doubt Alan will find the CL docs
> > helpful after disliking our docs of the same subject, as he did, based
> > on his original bug report.  Of course, it's possible that I'm missing
> > something here.
> 
> > Therefore, I invite Alan (and anyone else who'd like to chime in) to
> > please compare the CL docs on this matter with ours, and tell what
> > parts of the former made the issue "fall into place" (pun intended)
> > wrt this topic, where our docs don't.  Bonus points for proposing
> > patches for the relevant parts of the ELisp manual, to make this
> > subject's documentation "significantly" better.
> 
> I've read...,
> and found it clear indeed.  However it was also long.  After reading it,
> the Elisp sections on generalised variables make much more sense.
> 
> This suggests that these Elisp sections contain the material, but are
> not suitable for readers who don't already understand generalised
> variables.
> 
> In that CL page, a generalised variable is effectively defined as
> something you can use `setf' on within the first three paragraphs.  In
> the elisp sections, that identification is not present in the opening
> paragraphs - there is no definition on that opening page.  The first
> sub-page does not define a generalised variable as something you can use
> setf on - it merely says setf is a way to access one.  But that
> definition needs to be in the top level page, and it needs to be clear
> that it _is_ a definition.
> 
> The CL page gives a complete list of forms setf will work with.  The
> elisp page merely gives a list, without it being clear whether that list
> is complete or not.

Good summary.  FWIW, I agree.  It's about `setf', in particular.





  reply	other threads:[~2018-02-10 22:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 18+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-01-24 20:06 bug#30241: Emacs 26.0.91: "Generalized variables" are not defined Alan Mackenzie
2018-01-24 20:49 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-01-24 21:25 ` Drew Adams
2018-01-24 21:38   ` Noam Postavsky
2018-01-24 21:43     ` Drew Adams
2018-01-26 14:16   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-01-26 16:15     ` Drew Adams
2018-01-27 10:34       ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-02 10:33         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-10 11:24           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-10 21:58         ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-02-10 22:54           ` Drew Adams [this message]
2018-02-11 20:43             ` Richard Stallman
2018-02-11 16:00           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-03-20 20:51             ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-03-21  6:17               ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] ` <handler.30241.B.15168248834946.ack@debbugs.gnu.org>
2018-03-21 17:46   ` bug#30241: (Emacs 26.0.91: "Generalized variables" are not defined.) Alan Mackenzie
     [not found] <<20180124200652.GA4493@ACM>
     [not found] ` <<e3468d0d-4ee5-4173-9a0d-051803a8cf08@default>
     [not found]   ` <<83h8r8ln7u.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]     ` <<41654c7c-2d8d-44ec-a5c4-dd12014b7a9e@default>
     [not found]       ` <<83o9lfk2sy.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-01-27 15:31         ` bug#30241: Emacs 26.0.91: "Generalized variables" are not defined Drew Adams

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=7e0daea2-f6e1-4b57-a439-df03b35aac3e@default \
    --to=drew.adams@oracle.com \
    --cc=30241@debbugs.gnu.org \
    --cc=acm@muc.de \
    --cc=eliz@gnu.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).