From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: rms@gnu.org, Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: 22564@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 11:43:06 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <7ced4ce9-4804-4ea8-859c-973617d3958e@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <<E1aSU9T-0002aS-5O@fencepost.gnu.org>>
>> I think fundamental mode existed long before derived modes did.
>
> Fundamental mode has existed since 1984. The concept of derived modes
> came at least 10 years after that. What was always true is that other
> major modes obtain their effects by changing some per-buffer values
> away from the defaults that are in effect in Fundamental mode.
>> To say it shouldn't be used directly by users is a bit strange, IMAO.
>
> It is meant to be used by users. Creating a buffer puts it in
> Fundamental mode. Visiting a file which does not specify any mode,
> through its contents or its name, uses Fundamental mode.
>
> This has always been the case.
Well, yes, but in the past it was really fundamental. Now it
does fancy "electric" stuff. That's not bare-bones.
And now we do have derived modes. Fundamental mode is not
only the default default mode for interactive use, it is also
used non-interactively, where things like electric-this-&-that
make little sense (though they may not interfere in some cases).
IMO, if we don't return it to bare-bones interactivity then
we should move the fancy interactive features to a mode
derived from Fundamental mode and leave Fundamental mode
bare-bones - in particular for non-interactive use.
Whether that derived mode should be the new default default
mode is another question. I don't have a problem if it is,
though that wouldn't be my first choice (I would prefer
bare-bones interactive behavior too.)
IOW, I wouldn't object if the default for interactive use
is electric, but I don't think it's a good idea for fancy
stuff to be added to the "bottom" of the pyramid
(Fundamental mode), which is used also non-interactively.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2016-02-07 19:43 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 46+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <<mailman.3748.1454702408.843.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<20160206110601.6095.qmail@mail.muc.de>
2016-02-06 15:57 ` bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough Drew Adams
[not found] ` <<E1aSU9T-0002aS-5O@fencepost.gnu.org>
2016-02-07 19:43 ` Drew Adams [this message]
[not found] <<20160205125559.GC7727@acm.fritz.box>
[not found] ` <<834mdnusem.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-02-05 15:36 ` Drew Adams
2016-02-05 12:55 Alan Mackenzie
2016-02-05 14:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-05 15:13 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-02-05 15:34 ` Mark Oteiza
2016-02-05 15:38 ` Drew Adams
2016-02-05 17:57 ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-05 19:59 ` Drew Adams
2016-02-05 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-05 20:18 ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-06 19:48 ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-05 20:23 ` Glenn Morris
2016-02-05 21:43 ` Glenn Morris
2016-02-05 21:53 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-02-17 2:50 ` John Wiegley
2022-04-27 14:39 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-05-01 1:53 ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-01 6:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-05-02 23:47 ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-03 7:03 ` Andreas Röhler
2022-05-03 14:28 ` Drew Adams
2022-05-03 17:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-05-04 22:49 ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-05 5:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-05-05 11:02 ` Andreas Röhler
2022-05-05 16:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-05-05 18:34 ` Andreas Röhler
2022-05-06 23:20 ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-07 6:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-05-07 23:08 ` Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <mailman.3748.1454702408.843.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2016-02-06 11:06 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-02-07 18:33 ` Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <mailman.3712.1454686507.843.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2016-02-06 11:21 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-02-06 14:36 ` Mark Oteiza
2016-02-06 16:59 ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-07 19:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-07 21:02 ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-07 21:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-08 19:39 ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-08 20:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-08 20:18 ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-08 20:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-08 21:01 ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-09 3:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
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