From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Konstantin Kharlamov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#74382: `compile-first` Make rule is no longer using `load-prefer-newer` Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2024 16:12:08 +0300 Message-ID: <786ad13ce69b0a809148cd5d43d6518296ad1015.camel@yandex.ru> References: <6bc3a410f0857c3e3433070ac19deaf7eae88c63.camel@yandex.ru> <31dfd7d1c1c19d3fff5609b86ce85c1533a84af0.camel@yandex.ru> <861pz9x45w.fsf@gnu.org> <86zflxvoux.fsf@gnu.org> <7b07de9fd995f14e3b4d675c7288108dbe57209c.camel@yandex.ru> <86cyisvgtn.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10728"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Evolution 3.54.1 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 74382@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 18 14:14:47 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tD1aY-0002ew-O4 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Mon, 18 Nov 2024 08:13:58 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-77.klg.yp-c.yandex.net (mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-77.klg.yp-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c42:81af:0:640:7b5c:0]) by forward500d.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTPS id 1CBBE6001A; Mon, 18 Nov 2024 16:13:19 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: by mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-77.klg.yp-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id HDQsnTdOl0U0-FXfOftAr; Mon, 18 Nov 2024 16:13:18 +0300 X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1731935598; bh=dmtXXsXqgDm4NbDcFVS3gJmWUuNjqBSLLiREH368v48=; h=References:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID; b=Lz1j4ldkoSNl8Hq8S6k92l8WhvQGrHV5BFMD+HWwRYgE7zVOXtkkgbFnEpaimaaxR Mnu9oGQnm83DQRyYoSK73EfiML9AIbEAAXL4YSsrgu0/8KZV6upizuy7qb9braYmk8 KWpAP2j5mCd5gAEdetmSZZdYOFoDms0q6151hNdk= Authentication-Results: mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-77.klg.yp-c.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru In-Reply-To: <86cyisvgtn.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:295595 Archived-At: On Mon, 2024-11-18 at 14:59 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Konstantin Kharlamov > > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , acm@muc.de, 74382@debbugs.gnu.org > > Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2024 13:05:54 +0300 > >=20 > > Btw, thank you, this bit of history indeed is interesting. During > > whole > > discussion I had a question on the back of my mind: how this > > "distribute pre-built elc in tarballs" idea initially came to be. I > > mean, it's kind of nice from POV of saving a bit of energy around > > the > > world on CI machines, but I don't see much beyond that. Building > > elc > > files is not *that* bad for elc distribution to be strictly > > necessary. >=20 > Once again, building all the *.elc files takes a long time, even on > modern systems.=C2=A0 I have a 32-core screamer, and it still takes a few > minutes to byte-compile everything.=C2=A0 On an older system, it used to > take me 15 minutes even in parallel (-j4) builds. >=20 > Computers got much faster, but people know that, so they have less > patience.=C2=A0 Thus, avoiding recompilation of the *.elc files (and Info= , > and other derived files) is still important to make the build faster. > A release tarball builds in less than 1 min due to these measures. 3 and even 15 minutes of compilation once a few months at worst (the time between Emacs releases) is not a big deal. Besides, the endusers don't typically compile releases, instead distro packagers do that, and they are typically using CI. Emacs by far is not the slowest project to compile from scratch. AFAIR LibreOffce and Linux Kernel take longer to build. > > Now that you told this, I realize it's just a solution to a problem > > from 25 years old back, from times when that actually was a > > problem. >=20 > I don't understand this conclusion.=C2=A0 What problem existed 25 years > ago > that is related to "make clean" or to load-prefer-newer, and doesn't > exist anymore? This is tangentially related to `make clean` discussoin. I was just curious how come that Emacs started distributing elc files in release tarballs. Like, was there someone who asked for that, or anything=E2=80=A6 = Now I see it's just a feature from long past. I am not saying it's bad or good, because that's a separate question (there are both pros and cons).