From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Leonard Lausen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#27505: acknowledged by developer (Re: bug#27505: LC_CTYPE affects tutorial language) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 19:50:25 +0900 Message-ID: <768be671-14b6-513c-f121-b2ffc9f9b4a7@lausen.nl> References: <871soq7pyr.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <44eb186d-db67-3e93-31cd-8260f5df7781@lausen.nl> <83k22iwl13.fsf@gnu.org> <837eyiweyh.fsf@gnu.org> <7cdd7d3f-f704-1180-f95b-e243e4c2a658@lausen.nl> <83zibeuxpw.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1501930279 31984 195.159.176.226 (5 Aug 2017 10:51:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 10:51:19 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.0 Cc: 27505@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 05 12:51:13 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ddwfk-0007gZ-Mt for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 12:51:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56187 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ddwfq-0004Bp-QM for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:51:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52787) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ddwfi-00047y-Io for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:51:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ddwfe-0002ly-Tx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:51:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:39863) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ddwfe-0002lq-Pl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:51:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ddwfe-0007kd-Az for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:51:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Leonard Lausen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2017 10:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 27505 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 27505-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B27505.150193024029765 (code B ref 27505); Sat, 05 Aug 2017 10:51:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 27505) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2017 10:50:40 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42540 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ddwfF-0007jz-Uw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:50:39 -0400 Original-Received: from hercules.uberspace.de ([95.143.172.224]:45324 ident=jqwn4qSX0h0) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ddwfD-0007jp-EY for 27505@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:50:36 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 7413 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2017 10:50:32 -0000 Original-Received: from localhost (HELO ?192.168.0.14?) (127.0.0.1) by hercules.uberspace.de with SMTP; 5 Aug 2017 10:50:32 -0000 In-Reply-To: <83zibeuxpw.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:135410 Archived-At: >>> See the "interpretation of sequences of bytes of text data as >>> characters" parts: that's what causes Emacs to use LC_CTYPE to setup >>> the language environment. So we do follow Posix, AFAIU >> >> Hm, as long as LANG and LC_CTYPE both are UTF-8 locales, the >> interpretation of bytes would be the same. > > Yes, but LANG is the fallback in case LC_* are not defined, so I don't > think how LANG set to a different language than LC_CTYPE could be > according to Posix. Well, it's a fallback for the things that the respectively undefined LC_* variable would define. So the argument here is that LC_CTYPE according to POSIX does not define the interface language. The current behavior of emacs can only be justified by the "Additional semantics of this variable, if any, are implementation-dependent." clause for the LC_CTYPE variable. Note though that I have besides Dropbox not found a single program which uses LC_CTYPE to set the interface language. Instead those other programs rely on LANG. You may try "LANG=zh_CN.utf8 vim" compared to "LC_CTYPE=zh_CN.utf8 vim" as example. Also the name of LANG compared to LC_CTYPE does somewhat suggest to me that it should define the interface language whereas CTYPE should define the "character types" (?) ;) So I agree with the previous comment that LANG should take precedence over LC_CTYPE with regards to the interface language. Not sure if the current emacs implementation allows that change without affecting the settings where LC_CTYPE does change precedence over LANG. But nevermind if you prefer to keep the current behavior. You taught me how to overwrite the language variable manually, so while I still am unhappy about emacs behaving differently to most applications, my immediate concern is resolved ;)