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From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 3516@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#3516: 23.0.94; function key names in Info
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 14:03:19 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <763EEFF6285E42849FBF73B1B0B727A5@us.oracle.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <831uxvfdit.fsf@gnu.org>

> > > > What you describe is an implementation problem (Texinfo, Info).
> > > 
> > > Actually, no: _you_ are talking about implementation.
> > 
> > No.  I am talking only about the appearance in Info.
> 
> The appearance in Info _is_ implementation.

When you look at it only as an implementor, perhaps.

Try to take an Info reader point of view.

> > I am not speaking about references to the _name_ of the key.
> > I made that clear from the beginning.
> 
> You made nothing clear about that, till now.

Yes, I did, by speaking about "key sequence".

> > I am speaking about references to the key sequence `<RET>', 
> > that is, to the _use_ of the key.
> 
> "use" is a grey area.  What about the following sentence:
> 
>   To end a line, press the <RET> key.

It's fine, as shorthand for "press the key named <RET>".
<RET> is the name of the key.

But it is also fine to write "press `<RET>'".  Here we are using the name to
refer to the key sequence, that is, the key.  We are saying press the key.  We
are saying the same thing as "press the key named <RET>".

IOW, if we refer to that key-pressing action using the Emacs key-sequence
notation, we say "press `<RET>'" or similar.

`<RET>' refers to using the key named <RET> in an input sequence.

> Are we naming a key by its label or are we talking about a "key
> sequence"?

See above.  We can say either.  It depends whether what is important is the key
sequence or the name of the key.  If we want to talk about the name, then <RET>;
if we want to talk about the input (key) sequence then `<RET>'.

> If you don't understand Texinfo and don't care about the other output
> formats, your report is not of much use, because changes to the manual
> _must_ consider all supported forms of output.

You consider them, then.  I reported the bug.  I'm not proposing what internal
coding to fix it with, i.e., to get the proper appearance in Info.

> >  you can enter `M-a' by typing `<ESC> a'.
> >  You can enter `C-M-a' by typing `<ESC> C-a'.
> > 
> > Here we correctly write `<ESC> a' and not <ESC> `a' or <ESC> a.
> 
> When it's clearly part of a sequence of inputs, yes.

Thank you.  Now please go DTRT.  That's what this bug report is about.

In Emacs we have a conventional way to represent an input sequence of key
presses (and other input events, including mouse clicks etc.): we put the key
names, in order, between single quotes: `...'.

We call such an input sequence a "key sequence".  We speak of a key sequence
whenever we refer to such an input sequence, including in the context of key
bindings: "this command is bound to the key sequence `M-x'."

This is as true for a key named <RET> as it is for any other key.  When
referring to it in the context of a key sequence it should be between single
quotes.






  reply	other threads:[~2011-07-12 21:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 13+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-06-09 16:11 bug#3516: 23.0.94; function key names in Info Drew Adams
2009-06-10 22:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-06-10 22:33   ` Drew Adams
2009-06-11 10:42     ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-06-11 15:33       ` Drew Adams
2011-07-12 12:47 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-07-12 16:00   ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-07-12 16:38     ` Drew Adams
2011-07-12 17:15       ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-07-12 20:04         ` Drew Adams
2011-07-12 20:30           ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-07-12 21:03             ` Drew Adams [this message]
2011-07-13  3:00               ` Eli Zaretskii

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