From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#6616: S-TAB is mismapped in the *Help* buffer Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 07:24:06 -0700 Message-ID: <75F343B7B5464F16B7E14D0F0E18BC5F@us.oracle.com> References: <4C3AB426.2040500@gmail.com> <83pqyssj5a.fsf@gnu.org><83mxtwsei9.fsf@gnu.org> <4C3BFCB6.8000002@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1280680216 31536 80.91.229.12 (1 Aug 2010 16:30:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 16:30:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Adrian Robert' , 6616@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Paul Griepentrog'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 01 18:30:14 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfbQO-0008O2-0E for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 18:30:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37370 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OfbQH-00030S-Uw for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 12:30:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=50395 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OfbPn-0002cy-RK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 12:29:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfZfo-0000VC-MW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:37:57 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:47881) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfZfo-0000V0-Kp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:37:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfZUI-0002Wt-C5; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:26:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:26:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6616 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 6616-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6616.12806727189715 (code B ref 6616); Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:26:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 6616) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2010 14:25:18 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfZTZ-0002We-S7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:25:18 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfZTW-0002WX-L9 for 6616@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:25:15 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o71EPXY8032370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 1 Aug 2010 14:25:34 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o71EPVVp003923; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 14:25:32 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt003.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 455844361280672650; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 07:24:10 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.222.80) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 07:24:09 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcsxDZtMahAGaKnqRyWZBYW2AzVYBwAdfQGA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4C5583DD.0029:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:26:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:39101 Archived-At: > > and binding [S-tab] to [backtab] in the > `ns-alternatives-map' instead? > > Actually, we might want to do that everywhere, rather than only in > x-win.el and ns-win.el. I disagree. S-TAB has always been a free global key, and it has remained free in most keymaps. In Emacs there are several different behaviors that here and there are associated with TAB. The use of TAB for navigation in the sense of being opposite to [backtab] (e.g. navigation in Info or *Help*) is only one of them, and it is a fairly minor one (for Emacs). We only recently added it to Info. Arguably it can be said to make sense for other, similar read-only modes such as *Help*. Beyond that it does not necessarily make sense. Please do not bind S-TAB in a general way to [backtab] or anything else. Modes that really need that can do so. That leaves other code (e.g. other modes, user code, 3rd-party code) free to use S-TAB for other uses, especially uses that are related to a particular use of TAB. TAB for navigation is only one use of TAB. We already have potential and some real conflicts between different meanings of TAB. A mode needs to choose which meaning it prefers when there is a potential conflict. Some modes try to combine such behaviors into a DWIM behavior. This is enough - let's not make this more problematic by throwing S-TAB into the mix in a predefined way. Let the code in question decide. Bind S-TAB to `backtab' for *Help* if you want - that's helpful. Likewise perhaps some view-mode contexts (maybe all of them; dunno). But otherwise please leave it alone. Thx.