From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16155: 24.3.50; Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 14:39:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <749544c4-49e7-462f-b64c-26725cf35a59@default> References: < > <> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1387320080 21291 80.91.229.3 (17 Dec 2013 22:41:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:41:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org, acm@muc.de To: rms@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 17 23:41:25 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vt3KM-0006GK-Tr for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:41:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36117 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vt3KM-0005eN-HH for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:82151 Archived-At: > Was a proper poll of users ever conducted? I don't think so. > The first pretest would be a good opportunity to do that. +1 I just picked up a new development build, where `electric-indent-mode' is enabled by default. FWIW, I'm afraid I'm with Alan and Jarek (and RMS?) on this: I have turned it off. In `emacs-lisp-mode', especially, I want `C-j' to do `newline-and-indent', and I want `RET' to do only `newline'. As for the documentation in NEWS: This is all there is: `electric-indent-mode' is enabled by default. I was looking for something about `newline' or `C-j' or `RET' in programming modes (lisp modes, in particular), so I didn't find this entry right away. I suggest that you (a) explain this a little more and (b) make it easier to find. Mention, for example, that `C-j' and `RET' are, in effect, swapped now from what they have always been. At least that is true as a first approximation - I have no idea what other "interesting" changes this change in default behavior brings about. And I won't bother to find out - I just added this to my init file: (when (fboundp 'electric-indent-mode) (electric-indent-mode -1)) --- It's interesting that a giant brouhaha was made about seeing what changes users might want, to existing defaults, by: (a) checking the features and modes reported automatically in bug reports and (b) initiating a user poll on Emacs Wiki. And yet none of that data (however flakey or incomplete) was considered in deciding to make this change in default behavior. Whyzat? How many users actually reported (measured any way you like) that they wanted the default behavior to change to what you've changed it to? Well, we cannot really count the Emacs Wiki poll, because it was taken after you changed the default! Even so, only 10% (12 people) reported there that they use it - even though it is now the default! http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/FrequentlyEnabledPackages_Emacs244_Survey_Re= sults No, the Emacs Wiki poll is not a great poll. But do tell: Among the bug reports received before you changed the default value, how many users actually had `electric-indent-mode' turned on? Just curious. Anyway, you decided - end of story. Not a big deal - just one more. I've updated my init file to compensate.