bug#15810: 24.3.50; inappropriate text in (emacs) `Echo Area'

bug#15810: 24.3.50; inappropriate text in (emacs) `Echo Area'

[Drew Adams]

This text has no business being there:

(We have not explained buffers yet; see *note Buffers::,
for more information about them.)

(We have not
explained variables either; see *note Variables::, for more information
about them.)

Include the cross references, but drop the unhelpful commentary.

This text seems based on an assumption that reading is linear, from page
1 to the current page.  This was not true back in the 1980s, when Info
was created, and it certainly is not true today.  Reserve such text (if
at all) for the printed manual.

In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32)
 of 2013-10-19 on LEG570
Bzr revision: 114715 rgm@gnu.org-20131019023520-s8mwtib7xcx9e05w
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
 `configure --enable-checking 'CFLAGS=-O0 -g3' CPPFLAGS=-DGLYPH_DEBUG=1'

bug#15810: 24.3.50; inappropriate text in (emacs) `Echo Area'

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 07:39:52 -0800 (PST)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> 
> This text has no business being there:
> 
> (We have not explained buffers yet; see *note Buffers::,
> for more information about them.)

It is appropriate for when the manual is read as a book, linearly.

> (We have not
> explained variables either; see *note Variables::, for more information
> about them.)

Irrelevant.

This is not a bug, closing.

bug#15810: 24.3.50; inappropriate text in (emacs) `Echo Area'

[Drew Adams]

> > This text has no business being there:
> >
> > (We have not explained buffers yet; see *note Buffers::,
> > for more information about them.)
> 
> It is appropriate for when the manual is read as a book, linearly.

It is unnecessary in that rare case.  And it is inappropriate in
the far more common (in fact, typical) case: when the passage is
not read after reading all of the text linearly, starting from
page one.

Read the bug report, which says that it is not appropriate for the
*hypertext* manual.  Leave it in for the printed manual, if you like
(though even there it is not needed - a forward cross reference
should stand on its own).

> (We have not explained variables either; see *note Variables::,
> for more information about them.)
>
> Irrelevant.

What is irrelevant?  The quoted text from the manual?  Yes, except
for the cross reference it is irrelevant - no, worse, it is
misleading and can confuse.

> This is not a bug, closing.

It is a bug.  Such text simply does not belong in hypertext doc.
The cross references should remain.  The verbiage about your not
having explained XXXX yet is not appropriate for hypertext doc.
(And you should know that by now.)

Reopening.

bug#15810: 24.3.50; inappropriate text in (emacs) `Echo Area'

[Glenn Morris]

Drew Adams wrote:

Blah, blah, blah, listen to my opinions.

> Reopening.

Stop wasting our time with your trivial obsessions.
Why anyone continues to put up with this rubbish is beyond me.

bug#15810: 24.3.50; inappropriate text in (emacs) `Echo Area'

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 09:14:35 -0800 (PST)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> Cc: 15810@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Reopening.

Reclosing.

bug#15810: 24.3.50; inappropriate text in (emacs) `Echo Area'

[Stefan Monnier]

Drew,

Please get yourself a bzr checkout of the tree, ask for write access to
the repository, and fix those issues.

We'll all live much happier this way,


        Stefan


PS: One of the last times I suggested it, you replied something along
the lines that you can't do that.  I don't buy it.  Maybe you can't do
it from your work computer, but I'm sure you can get access to the
Internet outside of your work, and if you only have computers from your
work, then send me your address and I'll send you a laptop you can use
for Emacs hacking.