From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#4826: 23.1; woman-manpath, woman-man.conf-path on MS Windows with Cygwin Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:51:36 -0700 Message-ID: <6DCEA76054584B5EA5108B79200472AC@us.oracle.com> References: <7D3F20CA4B154B88B024209D1F0EBAC7@us.oracle.com> <83zl7adjvr.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Drew Adams , 4826@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1256854057 14769 80.91.229.12 (29 Oct 2009 22:07:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:07:37 +0000 (UTC) To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , <4826@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com> Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 29 23:07:30 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1N3d9U-0006T1-Sg for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:07:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43804 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N3d9T-0007yc-Oi for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:07:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N3d9N-0007uz-O7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:07:21 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N3d9J-0007nt-8e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:07:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55582 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N3d9J-0007nl-3V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:07:17 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:56942) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1N3d9I-0004ww-FI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:07:16 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n9TM7EY5028993; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:07:14 -0700 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n9TM04C3027601; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:00:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:00:04 -0700 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:00:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 4826 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 4826-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B4826.125685321927178 (code B ref 4826); Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:00:04 +0000 Original-Received: (at 4826) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Oct 2009 21:53:39 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n9TLrc8w027174 for <4826@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:53:39 -0700 Original-Received: from rgminet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n9TLqthD020121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:53:05 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by rgminet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n9TKx7Yr024862; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:53:59 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 20714065351256853092; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:51:32 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:51:32 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcpY1nkD6GBudM1lTkOrpnT1uJKvFwAAHkxw In-Reply-To: <83zl7adjvr.fsf@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4AEA0ECF.017D:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:07:21 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:32282 Archived-At: > > Seems like the default value of things like `man-path' on MS Windows > > should not be ("/usr/man" "/usr/share/man" "/usr/local/man"). > > > > I have Cygwin installed (but I'm not using Cygwin Emacs), but the > > default value does not reflect this. Even the doc string of > > `woman-manpath' says this: > > > > Microsoft platforms: > > I recommend including drive letters explicitly, e.g. > > > > ("C:/Cygwin/usr/man/" "C:/Cygwin/usr/local/man"). > > > > One wonders who "I" is here > > WoMan's author, I presume. Such text is inappropriate and unhelpful for user doc. That correction is (a minor) part of this bug report. If that is what Emacs _recommends_ for Windows users, then that is what Emacs should provide as default for Windows users. Why recommend apples but provide oranges? > > why can't Emacs itself do something like that for the default > > value? > > There's no standard place on Windows for man pages. Everybody puts > them where they see fit. How would Emacs know where to look? _Of course_ there is no standard place for _UNIX_ manual pages on Windows. Where should Emacs look? How about looking to the most common UNIX simulation for Windows? Look to the commonly used program that actually installs a UNIX manual on Windows. Where would you have Emacs look for a model - at your personal directory structure, which you mention as a counter-example? The more important question is this: Why would Emacs use _UNIX_ directories, knowing that this is MS Windows? We can be pretty sure that the UNIX directories are incorrect for Windows, even if you personally are an exception to this rule. Better to have something that might be appropriate for at least some number of Windows users > 1. This is already the approach we take for `woman-man.conf-path'. The default value for that user option, on Windows (emacs -Q), is ("C:/cygwin/lib" "C:/cygwin/etc"). Why do we use the Cygwin directories here? Because they provide a reasonable default behavior on Windows. And there is already code in woman.el that converts UNIX directories to Cygwin-Windows directories - see `woman-Cyg-to-Win' and `woman-parse-colon-path'. That code tries to do a good job of figuring out which Windows file names to use. Why shouldn't we do something similar for `woman-manpath'? > > That default value, even if hard-coded, would be better for > > Windows users than the actual default value of ("/usr/man" > > "/usr/share/man" "/usr/local/man"). > > How can incorrect default value be better? It can be better by being incorrect for fewer users and correct for more users, obviously. The current default value is incorrect for nearly _all_ Windows users (I would have said "all", but you are apparently an exception). Using the Cygwin value instead would at least provide a correct value for some non-neglibible set of Windows users. And this is the value that we explicitly _recommend_ for Windows users. And again, that's the approach we already take elsewhere in woman.el. Why do we do it there? Why should we try to DTRT wrt Cygwin and Windows elsewhere in woman.el but not here? It is a reasonable thing to do. Using UNIX directories is not reasonable at all on Windows. > The current default > actually works for me (because I happen to have man pages installed in > these two directories on my disk D:). So for me, changing the default > to something like C:/Cygwin/usr/man would be a step back. You are surely the exception in this regard. How common do you think it is for users to have personally set up such UNIX directories on Windows? Keeping to our own recommendation and catering to a commonly used UNIX simulation such as Cygwin makes a lot more sense than going against our recommendation and either ignoring Windows use altogether (using UNIX values) or catering to the unconventional directory structure of one Windows user. > If anything, I would suggest writing some code to look up the > directories in the default value on every drive that is on a local > hard disk, then perhaps do the same under /Cygwin on each drive. But > that's hardly a simple change of the default to a different static > value. > > > There is more chance that a Windows user has Cygwin installed than > > that the Unix directories will work! > > I'm not sure this is true. It's certainly false for me. I have gobs > of man pages, and no Cygwin. You _should_ be sure this is true. I cannot believe that you think there are more Windows users who have personally set up such UNIX directories on Windows than there are Windows users who use Cygwin. To follow your logic, we should remove all of the Cygwin-suppporting code in woman.el and remove the recommendation to use ("C:/Cygwin/usr/man/" "C:/Cygwin/usr/local/man") on Windows.