From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#21472: 25.0.50; REGRESSION: (emacs) `Coding Systems' uses curly quotes for Lisp strings Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 08:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62d3dfb8-6d01-446b-a97a-f4ed497e8369@default> References: <> <<55F83FDF.2070202@cs.ucla.edu>> <<3aa1fafa-ed4d-4935-8a3e-cae7d0842c5f@default>> <<83r3ly7rpd.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1442416658 32717 80.91.229.3 (16 Sep 2015 15:17:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 15:17:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 21472-done@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 16 17:17:24 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZcESX-0005jH-BT for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 17:17:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51413 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZcESR-0001kI-Pk for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:17:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59849) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZcESK-0001eP-FV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:17:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZcESF-00023A-5n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:17:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:42762) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZcESF-000234-2W for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:17:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZcESE-0007rn-FZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:17:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 15:17:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 21472 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 21472-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D21472.144241658630171 (code D ref 21472); Wed, 16 Sep 2015 15:17:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 21472-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Sep 2015 15:16:26 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34972 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZcERd-0007qY-DH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:16:25 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:28229) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZcERa-0007qK-Oe for 21472-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:16:23 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t8GFGKHR005417 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 Sep 2015 15:16:21 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t8GFGKu5025656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Sep 2015 15:16:20 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t8GFGKID013561; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 15:16:20 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83r3ly7rpd.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:106646 Archived-At: > It doesn't look good to me. "Unix" is not used here in a literal > sense, it stands for all Unix-like systems (a.k.a. "Posix"), including > GNU/Linux. Likewise, "DOS" stands for MS-DOS, MS-Windows, and similar > systems. So you say, but does the text say that? How does a reader get that from the manual? Just please put that _in words_, and forget the problematic use of lowercase and quotation marks here. IOW, say what you really mean. > Removing the quotes here changed the meaning. What meaning? There was no meaning given. No guessing would lead a reader to understand what you've now written as an explanation of what you meant the text to say. > That's also the problem with many other changes Paul made: where > previously a quoted "FOO" frequently meant "like FOO, but not really > FOO", now we have just the literal FOO, and the reader is none the > wiser. >=20 > Shame on us for failing to write good expressive English for fear of > quotes. Couldn't agree more with the first part. Throwing some quotes around bits of text without care typically hurts instead of helps. Let us "write good expressive English", by all means. Just say what you mean the text to say, instead of hoping that readers will guess your meaning because of some quote marks. FWIW, I agree with you wrt your remarks about indexing and using quote marks to indicate "so-called". My remarks here, and this entire bug report, have to do only with the particular quoted terms that this report calls out. There might be other such in the manual, but if so they should be handled outside this bug report and judged case by case, just like those reported here. (Use of quote marks to mean "so-called" or "not literally": http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/quotation_(speech)_marks_meaning_all= eged_so-called.htm)