From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#18005: 24.4.50; In Emacs manual, tell users how to enter debugger for `user-error' errors Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 10:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6261d1cf-2fa0-48a4-a8f0-0727d270c0f2@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1405188090 28240 80.91.229.3 (12 Jul 2014 18:01:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 18:01:30 +0000 (UTC) To: 18005@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 12 20:01:24 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X61bv-0000nK-K0 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 20:01:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49854 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X61bv-0008KL-Am for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:01:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39308) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X61bj-00088w-Fl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:01:19 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X61ba-0000j3-Uv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:01:11 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:32823) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X61ba-0000iv-RQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:01:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X61ba-0004nl-9n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:01:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 18:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 18005 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.140518803918410 (code B ref -1); Sat, 12 Jul 2014 18:01:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2014 18:00:39 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40794 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X61bB-0004mq-Bc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:00:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36888) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X61b8-0004mb-Nl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:00:35 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X61au-0000EL-8u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:00:28 -0400 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:60253) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X61au-0000EH-6W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:00:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38300) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X61am-0007uL-K0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:00:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X61ae-0008N4-9k for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:00:12 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:21973) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X61ae-0008Ju-3W for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:00:04 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s6CI01US014274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 18:00:02 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s6CHxxGN029951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 18:00:00 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s6CHxxO1029948 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 17:59:59 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:91467 Archived-At: The only hint about how to make Emacs enter the debugger for errors deemed `user-error' is this mention, buried in the `debug-ignored-errors' entry of the Elisp manual: The normal value of this variable includes `user-error', as well as several errors that happen often during editing but rarely result from bugs in Lisp programs. However, "rarely" is not "never"; if your program fails with an error that matches this list, you may try changing this list to debug the error. The easiest way is usually to set `debug-ignored-errors' to `nil'. (FWIW, wrt this text: Is it really necessary to point out that users can want to enter the debugger for other reasons that tracking down a Lisp bug?) It should be made *obvious* to users, in the *Emacs* manual, how to make the debugger open for so-called "user errors". In particular, some mention of how to do this should be added to any descriptions of `debug-on-error' and `toggle-debug-on-error'. Yes, *especially* since these have NO effect on this. Users will try these and not understand how to get what they want in this regard. Here is one proof: http://superuser.com/q/782313/250462. (Hard to believe that something presumably designed with end users in mind would not be documented wrt how to access the debugger. Of course, `user-error' has NOTHING to do with user errors anyway...) In GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-06-28 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 117431 rgm@gnu.org-20140628015517-eku6hj8mpgcvfnso Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include''