From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andreas =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough. Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 20:34:03 +0200 Message-ID: <6260ca33-8d83-6b81-3d6b-5b00712868cf@easy-emacs.de> References: <20160205125559.GC7727@acm.fritz.box> <20160205215301.GG7727@acm.fritz.box> <87ee1isi8r.fsf@gnus.org> <83h7697p7b.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7664kmg.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0b0356u.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6bw2bud.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CN1SVlOBEley4M0ojFa9bhjc" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18287"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.8.1 Cc: 22564@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 05 20:35:37 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nmgK6-0004Pu-Sf for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Am 05.05.22 um 18:17 schrieb Eli Zaretskii: >> Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 13:02:37 +0200 >> From: Andreas Röhler >> >> A fundamental mode should be as fundamental as possible, stripped by all fanciness. > "Fanciness" is in the eyes of the beholder. It is clear that you > don't like electric-indent-mode, Hi Eli, that's not true. In fact, I use electric-indentation all over the day. Just don't want it in environments, where it's not appropriate. It's easier to switch on stuff than looking how to switch things off. > but that doesn't mean your opinion > represents that of the majority. Majority is no measure for correctness.  Requiring it, would put religion at the place of science. > We decided to turn that mode ON by > default because quite a few people had other expectations. > > Fundamental mode is just a mode. That's bad. Need a reliable basement to build upon. Kind of an empty sheet. > Richard even says that it is an > important mode. Then it follows that assuming it has no "fanciness" > whatsoever isn't necessarily correct. --------------CN1SVlOBEley4M0ojFa9bhjc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


Am 05.05.22 um 18:17 schrieb Eli Zaretskii:
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 13:02:37 +0200
From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de>

A fundamental mode should be as fundamental as possible, stripped by all fanciness.

"Fanciness" is in the eyes of the beholder.  It is clear that you
don't like electric-indent-mode,

Hi Eli,

that's not true. In fact, I use electric-indentation all over the day. Just don't want it in environments, where it's not appropriate.

It's easier to switch on stuff than looking how to switch things off.

 but that doesn't mean your opinion
represents that of the majority.


Majority is no measure for correctness.  Requiring it, would put religion at the place of science.


  We decided to turn that mode ON by
default because quite a few people had other expectations.

Fundamental mode is just a mode.

That's bad. Need a reliable basement to build upon. Kind of an empty sheet.


  Richard even says that it is an
important mode.  Then it follows that assuming it has no "fanciness"
whatsoever isn't necessarily correct.
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