* bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case'
@ 2016-01-02 3:23 Drew Adams
2016-01-02 8:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2016-01-02 3:23 UTC (permalink / raw
To: 22291
This regression was introduced in Emacs 24.3. Prior to that, code could
use (require 'cl-macs) to have macros such as `case' provided at
runtime.
(eval-when-compile (require 'cl)) still works, of course. But neither
(eval-when-compile (require 'cl-macs)) nor (require 'cl-macs) defines
macro `case', starting with Emacs 24.3.
This gratuitously breaks any existing code that loads cl-macs expecting
to get the definition of `case'. This breakage should not be necessary.
In GNU Emacs 25.1.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32)
of 2015-12-10
Bzr revision: 6148555ee5a3d0139ae517803718b3e0357933c7
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
`configure --prefix=/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=yes
--enable-check-lisp-object-type --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=-Og
-ggdb3' LDFLAGS=-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=-DGC_MCHECK=1
-Ic:/Devel/emacs/include''
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case'
2016-01-02 3:23 bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case' Drew Adams
@ 2016-01-02 8:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-02 17:50 ` bug#22291: 25.1.50; NOTABUG: " Glenn Morris
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-01-02 8:37 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 22291
> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 19:23:03 -0800 (PST)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
>
> This regression was introduced in Emacs 24.3. Prior to that, code could
> use (require 'cl-macs) to have macros such as `case' provided at
> runtime.
>
> (eval-when-compile (require 'cl)) still works, of course. But neither
> (eval-when-compile (require 'cl-macs)) nor (require 'cl-macs) defines
> macro `case', starting with Emacs 24.3.
>
> This gratuitously breaks any existing code that loads cl-macs expecting
> to get the definition of `case'. This breakage should not be necessary.
From NEWS.24, under "Changes in Specialized Modes and Packages in
Emacs 24.3":
*** CL's main entry is now (require 'cl-lib).
`cl-lib' is like the old `cl' except that it uses the namespace cleanly;
i.e., all its definitions have the "cl-" prefix (and internal definitions
use the "cl--" prefix).
If `cl' provided a feature under the name `foo', then `cl-lib'
provides it under the name `cl-foo' instead; with the exceptions of the
few `cl' definitions that had to use `foo*' to avoid conflicts with
pre-existing Elisp entities. These have been renamed to `cl-foo'
rather than `cl-foo*'.
IOW, this was a deliberate change, and you should either use 'cl-case'
with Emacs versions since 24.3, or use 'cl' instead of 'cl-macs'.
OK?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case'
[not found] ` <<83a8oocr7i.fsf@gnu.org>
@ 2016-01-02 17:28 ` Drew Adams
2016-01-02 17:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2016-01-02 17:28 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Eli Zaretskii, Drew Adams; +Cc: 22291
> IOW, this was a deliberate change, and you should either use 'cl-case'
> with Emacs versions since 24.3, or use 'cl' instead of 'cl-macs'.
I know all of that. Just because something was decided does not mean
that that decision was the best decision possible, or even wise.
This is a gratuitous change that breaks backward compatibility. That's
the point. Gratuitous - unnecessary.
Personally I tend to require `cl', and at compile-time only, to get
such macros. But it is entirely reasonable that someone might require
`cl-macs' - at runtime or compile time - to get such a macro definition.
And if some user does not compile the code that requires the library
that provides the macro, then s?he will now get the entire `cl' at
runtime, instead of getting only the much-smaller `cl-macs' at runtime.
> OK?
Not IMHO.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case'
2016-01-02 17:28 ` bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: " Drew Adams
@ 2016-01-02 17:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 21:31 ` John Wiegley
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-01-02 17:44 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 22291-done
> Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:28:02 -0800 (PST)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> Cc: 22291@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > IOW, this was a deliberate change, and you should either use 'cl-case'
> > with Emacs versions since 24.3, or use 'cl' instead of 'cl-macs'.
>
> I know all of that. Just because something was decided does not mean
> that that decision was the best decision possible, or even wise.
>
> This is a gratuitous change that breaks backward compatibility. That's
> the point. Gratuitous - unnecessary.
>
> Personally I tend to require `cl', and at compile-time only, to get
> such macros. But it is entirely reasonable that someone might require
> `cl-macs' - at runtime or compile time - to get such a macro definition.
>
> And if some user does not compile the code that requires the library
> that provides the macro, then s?he will now get the entire `cl' at
> runtime, instead of getting only the much-smaller `cl-macs' at runtime.
>
> > OK?
>
> Not IMHO.
So I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
From my POV, this is not a bug, but a deliberate change that is well
documented.
Closing.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* bug#22291: 25.1.50; NOTABUG: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case'
2016-01-02 8:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-01-02 17:50 ` Glenn Morris
2016-01-02 18:16 ` Drew Adams
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2016-01-02 17:50 UTC (permalink / raw
To: 22291
The only public entry points to the cl library are cl/cl-lib
(it was always so).
External code should not attempt to load any of the cl-foo submodules
that it happens to be divided into. For case, simply
(eval-when-compile (require 'cl))
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* bug#22291: 25.1.50; NOTABUG: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case'
2016-01-02 17:50 ` bug#22291: 25.1.50; NOTABUG: " Glenn Morris
@ 2016-01-02 18:16 ` Drew Adams
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2016-01-02 18:16 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Glenn Morris, 22291
> The only public entry points to the cl library are cl/cl-lib
> (it was always so).
What does that even mean? What determines it; IOW, why do you say so?
> External code should not attempt to load any of the cl-foo submodules
> that it happens to be divided into.
Where is that stated, besides your statement of it now? And what
would be the rationale for such a proscription?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case'
2016-01-02 17:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-01-03 21:31 ` John Wiegley
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: John Wiegley @ 2016-01-03 21:31 UTC (permalink / raw
To: 22291
>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> Personally I tend to require `cl', and at compile-time only, to get
>> such macros. But it is entirely reasonable that someone might require
>> `cl-macs' - at runtime or compile time - to get such a macro definition.
>>
>> And if some user does not compile the code that requires the library
>> that provides the macro, then s?he will now get the entire `cl' at
>> runtime, instead of getting only the much-smaller `cl-macs' at runtime.
>>
>> > OK?
>>
>> Not IMHO.
> So I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
> From my POV, this is not a bug, but a deliberate change that is well
> documented.
From the point of view of the bug report, I agree with Eli.
From the point of view of the issue, I agree with Drew. Drew, let's close this
as a bug, but open a new discussion on better organization of the CL stuff. We
should start the discussion on tangents, until we arrive at something
meaningful to bring to the developer's list.
--
John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2016-01-03 21:31 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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2016-01-02 3:23 bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case' Drew Adams
2016-01-02 8:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-02 17:50 ` bug#22291: 25.1.50; NOTABUG: " Glenn Morris
2016-01-02 18:16 ` Drew Adams
[not found] <<61b4ebe0-446c-49df-b5d1-c527a47192b5@default>
[not found] ` <<83a8oocr7i.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-01-02 17:28 ` bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: " Drew Adams
2016-01-02 17:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 21:31 ` John Wiegley
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