From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#17872: 24.4.50; "primitive" in (elisp) `Advising Functions' and similar nodes Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 17:56:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <61729aef-9138-4324-8b26-e42f6bd15f84@default> References: <878ss9b0ua.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="251035"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 17872@debbugs.gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 05 02:57:17 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1huRJN-0013Bo-7G for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Mon, 5 Aug 2019 00:56:23 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u51kku6ud-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 05 Aug 2019 00:56:22 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0020.oracle.com (abhmp0020.oracle.com [141.146.116.26]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x750uHA6011842; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 00:56:21 GMT In-Reply-To: <878ss9b0ua.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9339 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=730 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908050004 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9339 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=776 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908050004 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:164602 Archived-At: > > Please use some other term than "primitive" for what is intended > > here. The term "primitive" already has a different meaning > > in Emacs, which you can find by using `i primitive RET' in the > > Elisp manual: > > > > "primitive" > > A function which is callable from Lisp but is actually written > > in C. Primitives are also called "built-in functions", or > > "subrs". > > Examples include functions like `car' and `append'. In > > addition, all special forms (see below) are also considered > > primitives. >=20 > Are you referring to (for instance) this text? >=20 > --- > Emacs's advice system provides two sets of primitives for that: the > core set, for function values held in variables and object > fields (with the corresponding primitives being @code{add-function} > and @code{remove-function}) and another set layered on top of it > for named functions (with the main primitives being > @code{advice-add} and @code{advice-remove}). Yes, and as the bug title says, "and similar nodes". > Nowhere in this node (and the subsequent nodes) is the word "primitive" > used in reference to a function or the like,=20 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Uh, I beg to differ. All of the "primitives" in the text you just quoted are functions. And that text explicitly refers to them as functions. They are _functions_, and they are not coded in C. > but in the phrase "Core Advising Primitives" or similar. > I don't think there's much scope for confusion with the > other use of the word, The undefined term "core" here presumably means that these are the basic, or fundamental functions used for advice. Though undefined here, "core" is OK. What's not OK (it's misleading) is "primitive". "Core Advising Functions" or "Basic Advising Functions" would be clearer, and would not invite confusion with Emacs primitives, which are callable from Lisp but written in C. Either that or perhaps you would like to rewrite the longstanding text that defines "primitive" as a function or special form written in C. > so I'm closing this bug report. Unfortunate.