bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

[Sean Devlin]

Hi folks,

Recipe:

1. emacs --init-directory=/tmp/emacs
2. M-: user-init-file RET

The user-init-file is ~/.emacs, despite the flag to use /tmp/emacs as
the init directory.

Maybe this is intended behavior, but I found it confusing. The manual
says this about the flag:

"Specify the directory to use when looking for the Emacs init files."

I interpreted this to mean all init files, including the user-init-file.

A workaround is to create /tmp/emacs/init.el before starting Emacs:

1. mkdir -p /tmp/emacs
2. touch /tmp/emacs/init.el
3. emacs --init-directory=/tmp/emacs

Thanks!

In GNU Emacs 29.2 (build 1, aarch64-apple-darwin21.6.0, NS
appkit-2113.60 Version 12.6.6 (Build 21G646)) of 2024-01-18 built on
armbob.lan
Windowing system distributor 'Apple'
System Description:  macOS

Configured using:
'configure --with-ns '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application
Support/Emacs/${version}/site-lisp:/Library/Application
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bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Sean Devlin <spd@toadstyle.org>
> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2024 12:12:07 -0400
> 
> 1. emacs --init-directory=/tmp/emacs
> 2. M-: user-init-file RET
> 
> The user-init-file is ~/.emacs, despite the flag to use /tmp/emacs as
> the init directory.
> 
> Maybe this is intended behavior, but I found it confusing. The manual
> says this about the flag:
> 
> "Specify the directory to use when looking for the Emacs init files."
> 
> I interpreted this to mean all init files, including the user-init-file.

That option sets user-emacs-directory, it doesn't directly affect
user-init-file.

Emacs by default sets user-emacs-directory to the directory where it
actually finds the init file.  This option overrides that.

> A workaround is to create /tmp/emacs/init.el before starting Emacs:
> 
> 1. mkdir -p /tmp/emacs
> 2. touch /tmp/emacs/init.el
> 3. emacs --init-directory=/tmp/emacs

It isn't a workaround, it's how you should do it.

I don't think this is a bug.  The search for init file and the setting
of user-emacs-directory that follows are complex issues, not easily
explained in a few words.

May I ask why you needed to use this option?  It should not be
generally needed.

bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

[Sean Devlin]

Hi,

> I don't think this is a bug.

Fair enough.

> May I ask why you needed to use this option?  It should not be
> generally needed.

Lately, I run Emacs from the emacs-30 branch with some local tweaks. I
found a bug in Org, and I was trying to reproduce it in a stable version
of Emacs with default configuration. The bug is in Org 9.7+, which is
newer than what ships in Emacs 29.

Since I knew I would need to install a package, I checked the manual for
the command-line flags to specify the user-emacs-directory, and I found
the --init-directory option. I opened an instance of Emacs 29.2 with
--init-directory=/tmp/bug, and I installed Org via ELPA.

Then, for an unrelated task, I opened an instance of my main Emacs
installation, and I was surprised to see it load without any of my
configuration. I discovered the Emacs 29 instance had written a file to
~/.emacs, shadowing my own configuration in ~/.emacs.d/init.el. That it
wrote the user-init-file outside the user-emacs-directory I specified
was surprising to me.

bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 15:59:45 -0400, Sean Devlin <spd@toadstyle.org> said:

    Sean> Hi,
    >> I don't think this is a bug.

    Sean> Fair enough.

    >> May I ask why you needed to use this option?  It should not be
    >> generally needed.

    Sean> Lately, I run Emacs from the emacs-30 branch with some local tweaks. I
    Sean> found a bug in Org, and I was trying to reproduce it in a stable version
    Sean> of Emacs with default configuration. The bug is in Org 9.7+, which is
    Sean> newer than what ships in Emacs 29.

    Sean> Since I knew I would need to install a package, I checked the manual for
    Sean> the command-line flags to specify the user-emacs-directory, and I found
    Sean> the --init-directory option. I opened an instance of Emacs 29.2 with
    Sean> --init-directory=/tmp/bug, and I installed Org via ELPA.

The emacs info file says

    ‘--init-directory’
         Specify the directory to use when looking for the Emacs init files.

and '.emacs' is an Emacs init file, so I guess the confusion is
understandable. Maybe we should add "(except '.emacs')" to that
statement.

    Sean> Then, for an unrelated task, I opened an instance of my main Emacs
    Sean> installation, and I was surprised to see it load without any of my
    Sean> configuration. I discovered the Emacs 29 instance had written a file to
    Sean> ~/.emacs, shadowing my own configuration in ~/.emacs.d/init.el. That it
    Sean> wrote the user-init-file outside the user-emacs-directory I specified
    Sean> was surprising to me.

    HOME=/tmp/emacs emacs

is how I do that kind of testing.

Robert
-- 

bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Sean Devlin <spd@toadstyle.org>
> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2024 15:59:45 -0400
> Cc: 72294@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Hi,
> 
> > I don't think this is a bug.
> 
> Fair enough.
> 
> > May I ask why you needed to use this option?  It should not be
> > generally needed.
> 
> Lately, I run Emacs from the emacs-30 branch with some local tweaks. I
> found a bug in Org, and I was trying to reproduce it in a stable version
> of Emacs with default configuration. The bug is in Org 9.7+, which is
> newer than what ships in Emacs 29.
> 
> Since I knew I would need to install a package, I checked the manual for
> the command-line flags to specify the user-emacs-directory, and I found
> the --init-directory option. I opened an instance of Emacs 29.2 with
> --init-directory=/tmp/bug, and I installed Org via ELPA.
> 
> Then, for an unrelated task, I opened an instance of my main Emacs
> installation, and I was surprised to see it load without any of my
> configuration. I discovered the Emacs 29 instance had written a file to
> ~/.emacs, shadowing my own configuration in ~/.emacs.d/init.el. That it
> wrote the user-init-file outside the user-emacs-directory I specified
> was surprising to me.

Thanks, I used this to improve the documentation of --init-directory
on the emacs-30 branch and make it more accurate, and I'm therefore
closing this bug.

bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,  72294@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 08:15:01 +0200
> 
> >>>>> On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 15:59:45 -0400, Sean Devlin <spd@toadstyle.org> said:
> 
> The emacs info file says
> 
>     ‘--init-directory’
>          Specify the directory to use when looking for the Emacs init files.
> 
> and '.emacs' is an Emacs init file, so I guess the confusion is
> understandable. Maybe we should add "(except '.emacs')" to that
> statement.

That would be inaccurate, AFAIU.  If the .emacs file is there, it will
be used from that directory.

bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Fri, 26 Jul 2024 13:34:07 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said:

    >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
    >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,  72294@debbugs.gnu.org
    >> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 08:15:01 +0200
    >> 
    >> >>>>> On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 15:59:45 -0400, Sean Devlin <spd@toadstyle.org> said:
    >> 
    >> The emacs info file says
    >> 
    >> ‘--init-directory’
    >> Specify the directory to use when looking for the Emacs init files.
    >> 
    >> and '.emacs' is an Emacs init file, so I guess the confusion is
    >> understandable. Maybe we should add "(except '.emacs')" to that
    >> statement.

    Eli> That would be inaccurate, AFAIU.  If the .emacs file is there, it will
    Eli> be used from that directory.

Thatʼs not what I observe:

~/.emacs:

        (message "Home dir")

/tmp/emacs-30/.emacs:

        (message "Temp dir")

src/emacs --init-directory=/tmp/emacs-30

=> *Messages* contains "Home dir"

So it looks like this option only affects `user-emacs-directory'.

I agree it would be less confusing if it used the ".emacs" in
"/tmp/emacs-30", but I think the ship has sailed on that one.

Robert
-- 

bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
> Cc: spd@toadstyle.org,  72294@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 14:00:22 +0200
> 
> >>>>> On Fri, 26 Jul 2024 13:34:07 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said:
> 
>     >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
>     >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,  72294@debbugs.gnu.org
>     >> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 08:15:01 +0200
>     >> 
>     >> >>>>> On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 15:59:45 -0400, Sean Devlin <spd@toadstyle.org> said:
>     >> 
>     >> The emacs info file says
>     >> 
>     >> ‘--init-directory’
>     >> Specify the directory to use when looking for the Emacs init files.
>     >> 
>     >> and '.emacs' is an Emacs init file, so I guess the confusion is
>     >> understandable. Maybe we should add "(except '.emacs')" to that
>     >> statement.
> 
>     Eli> That would be inaccurate, AFAIU.  If the .emacs file is there, it will
>     Eli> be used from that directory.
> 
> Thatʼs not what I observe:
> 
> ~/.emacs:
> 
>         (message "Home dir")
> 
> /tmp/emacs-30/.emacs:
> 
>         (message "Temp dir")
> 
> src/emacs --init-directory=/tmp/emacs-30
> 
> => *Messages* contains "Home dir"
> 
> So it looks like this option only affects `user-emacs-directory'.

Sean said that an existing init file was being used from that
directory.  This contradicts your observations.

bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Fri, 26 Jul 2024 15:03:41 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said:

    >> ~/.emacs:
    >> 
    >> (message "Home dir")
    >> 
    >> /tmp/emacs-30/.emacs:
    >> 
    >> (message "Temp dir")
    >> 
    >> src/emacs --init-directory=/tmp/emacs-30
    >> 
    >> => *Messages* contains "Home dir"
    >> 
    >> So it looks like this option only affects `user-emacs-directory'.

    Eli> Sean said that an existing init file was being used from that
    Eli> directory.  This contradicts your observations.

An existing "init.el" file, if "~/.emacs" does not exist. Not a
".emacs" file in the directory specified by
'--init-directory'. Because --init-directory changes
`user-emacs-directory'.

Robert
-- 

bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

[Sean Devlin]

> On Jul 26, 2024, at 8:14 AM, Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>>> On Fri, 26 Jul 2024 15:03:41 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said:
> 
>>> ~/.emacs:
>>> 
>>> (message "Home dir")
>>> 
>>> /tmp/emacs-30/.emacs:
>>> 
>>> (message "Temp dir")
>>> 
>>> src/emacs --init-directory=/tmp/emacs-30
>>> 
>>> => *Messages* contains "Home dir"
>>> 
>>> So it looks like this option only affects `user-emacs-directory'.
> 
>    Eli> Sean said that an existing init file was being used from that
>    Eli> directory.  This contradicts your observations.
> 
> An existing "init.el" file, if "~/.emacs" does not exist. Not a
> ".emacs" file in the directory specified by
> '--init-directory'. Because --init-directory changes
> `user-emacs-directory’.

Correct, I only tested with a file named init.el, not .emacs.

bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

[Sean Devlin]

> On Jul 26, 2024, at 2:16 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> Thanks, I used this to improve the documentation of --init-directory
> on the emacs-30 branch and make it more accurate, and I'm therefore
> closing this bug.

Thanks!

bug#72294: 29.2; Emacs --init-directory=... puts user-init-file elsewhere

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Fri, 26 Jul 2024 09:48:11 -0400, Sean Devlin <spd@toadstyle.org> said:
    >> An existing "init.el" file, if "~/.emacs" does not exist. Not a
    >> ".emacs" file in the directory specified by
    >> '--init-directory'. Because --init-directory changes
    >> `user-emacs-directory’.

    Sean> Correct, I only tested with a file named init.el, not .emacs.

Perhaps we should have a '--be-more-modern' flag that disables
searching for ".emacs" completely 😺 (I kid, I kid).

Robert
--