From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#19468: 25.0.50; UI inconveniences with M-. Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:22:14 +0300 Message-ID: <55411346.5090204@yandex.ru> References: <83zja6b3tc.fsf@gnu.org> <54A24079.4020902@yandex.ru> <54A2FF47.6010207@yandex.ru> <54A86135.7080004@yandex.ru> <54A90002.7080009@gmx.at> <54A9C3FB.7000602@yandex.ru> <54AA3881.3080304@gmx.at> <54ABBB47.7010603@yandex.ru> <837fszx7iy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r3r5wqwv.fsf@gnu.org> <83k2wxwexb.fsf@gnu.org> <83fv7kwbow.fsf@gnu.org> <553FF4EF.4080003@yandex.ru> <838udbueku.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1430328205 32313 80.91.229.3 (29 Apr 2015 17:23:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:23:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 19468@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 29 19:23:12 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YnVhX-0001al-TQ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 19:23:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40271 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YnVhW-0002Js-OV for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:23:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43054) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YnVhT-0002HY-5G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:23:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YnVhP-0000Sx-4T for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:23:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:46666) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YnVhP-0000Ss-0b for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:23:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YnVhO-00055b-HM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:23:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:23:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19468 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 19468-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19468.143032814419502 (code B ref 19468); Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:23:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 19468) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2015 17:22:24 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56641 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YnVgl-00054U-RO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:22:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-f179.google.com ([209.85.212.179]:38594) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YnVgj-00054H-Ul for 19468@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:22:22 -0400 Original-Received: by wiun10 with SMTP id n10so74009922wiu.1 for <19468@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:22:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JcDG3NG36yax6MzQD7YwY+dWt8yDiLte+5n1kLic488=; b=vYBR+vOv7slxHjB9muQUzYhnXasJAsZwg7ABadfcM37PzXphrq7OGygq/nCTHI4Scz FH89PUeuqqiLfXwARqOZbcIpMH0sBHQU2FsCyt5vNU0dE8kUoawX1bq5BVOW0pV+QEKK 9/wCaYjnTqZIgwaBYt9AWBTCNXynYEnbxnT+b+FjHX8mG6IFejaDWuwn+bavsBRgdaOz GkDcZl4yOJq9zKivHk4My9XoXisOoUOBisQLtu4bM9gaLBilDi5aabsAefptna8LRluE zyt7NOhfdYE8ftY5z8GqJIlniDV5zcQy4LgCgKHzVeqEZ4B7dwGjhnU1IPsAIhBuUHst FPOg== X-Received: by 10.194.206.66 with SMTP id lm2mr175989wjc.79.1430328136238; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.185] (static-nbl2-118.cytanet.com.cy. [212.31.107.118]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id gs7sm22083791wib.10.2015.04.29.10.22.15 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:22:16 -0700 (PDT) user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.0 in-reply-to: <838udbueku.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:102245 Archived-At: On 04/29/2015 06:41 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > That's a UI inconvenience, IMO. I already explained why: it requires > me to know up front whether the symbol name I'm about to type is > precise or not. And I have already explained that it has advantages as well. Interested users can rebind M-. to xref-find-apropos anyway. > We should not have "non-ideal" implementation that return radically > different results. Each query by default should yield approximately > the same result. I agree this should be improved. > That kind of thing happens every day in Emacs development, IME. > There's no way around it, if you care about some component, and > another one gets in the way, you need to fix that other component. Sure. Or sometimes, you just try to make it work well enough. > I wasn't talking about the elis backend, I was talking about the > design principles. The implementation details of the Elisp backend have nothing to do with the other languages. > No, it's a bug to be fixed. People are welcome to work on that, but I don't see it work sufficiently well and user-friendly in all cases. >> You can't use tags for non-core Elisp code anyway, such as anything in your init directory (installed packages, etc), and any Elisp files installed separately by the operating system's distribution. > > Of course I can use TAGS: I just need to load those additional tags > tables. First you have to collect the list of locations, generate TAGS at each of them, and then load them. While (okay) it is possible, it's not something we can ask the majority of users to perform. >> Actually, if you're not working on a Git checkout, I don't think you can use the tags even for the Elisp code that's part of Emacs. > > Why not? I do it all the time, and tried again just now: it works. Okay, you can, if you find out where your distribution installed the Elisp files, go there, and generate the TAGS table. Again, not something I'd ask the average user to do.