From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20322: 25.0.50; indent-tabs-mode should default to nil Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 22:25:23 +0300 Message-ID: <5536A423.7020808@yandex.ru> References: <861tjn3069.fsf@yandex.ru> <552D20B6.8030005@yandex.ru> <83mw2abul3.fsf@gnu.org> <552D34BC.4090806@yandex.ru> <83h9sibt0q.fsf@gnu.org> <552D7796.2090109@yandex.ru> <552D9204.3000604@yandex.ru> <552DC816.3030002@yandex.ru> <553513B4.6040509@yandex.ru> <55357918.7030808@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1429644387 7502 80.91.229.3 (21 Apr 2015 19:26:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 19:26:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 20322@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 21 21:26:12 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YkdoC-0001wU-00 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 21:26:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60094 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YkdoB-0003Ff-5x for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:26:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57937) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ykdo7-0003Fa-L3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:26:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ykdo2-0008En-IK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:26:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:45723) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ykdo2-0008Ee-DR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:26:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Ykdo1-0001zk-Qd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:26:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 19:26:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20322 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20322-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20322.14296443337608 (code B ref 20322); Tue, 21 Apr 2015 19:26:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20322) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2015 19:25:33 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35499 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YkdnZ-0001ya-Aq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:25:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com ([209.85.212.178]:35865) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YkdnX-0001yM-Mt for 20322@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:25:32 -0400 Original-Received: by wizk4 with SMTP id k4so151786613wiz.1 for <20322@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 12:25:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5edMVxjomW3y8jbEqLW4tR9XinCqdHFRIWizBjTJjjo=; b=Crd3hRxUa2r1KI/m2BuD+YAVHvhJiFFW7UiaN6tPGCrH9H1Tc3lEl/M8Ujoce7u+4a GrgANaZF1v5dkIpkSia7b88X9xlnX/vw09E3E4lt04Y0n+LdGP94EYADbFMpPkdAQFj4 fWX4iMUWAnZ1MwSNAcw8soz/q6S4zE9wWKFvuoMmgjPdcST6VkYWVkTG/3uQSVRSNjLm qFuNeXpu0AyaeX39mucfocl2hmezBD/9Kppxr+mToJBkfo5WLIAKZy1Hz+c4zTi9uuMr m7Q8G2hABl+Jik4j3mdMdkadGz/JKNFt2DybX9Hg6/jzv6CpvOYgHIvPGOrivNqsB5dP 2eKw== X-Received: by 10.180.109.79 with SMTP id hq15mr8583432wib.93.1429644326142; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 12:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([82.102.93.54]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id u6sm3941758wjy.13.2015.04.21.12.25.25 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Apr 2015 12:25:25 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:36.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/36.0 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:101836 Archived-At: On 04/21/2015 04:25 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > That suggests that it might be OK to set indent-tabs-mode to nil in > javascript-mode and in elisp-mode. Maybe even in C++. But clearly not > in C nor in Java. C -- seems so. But I disagree about Java: my run was inconclusive, and the analysis I originally linked to, http://sideeffect.kr/popularconvention/#java (66% spaces), is almost (thought not quite) within the margin of error. The "\s\s" vs "\s{8}" distinction is also unlikely to matter in that community, because if they do use tabs, it's almost always one tab per indent level. Any Java developers reading this should feel free to contradict me. Considering that Java is a corporate-driven language, and both Oracle's and Google's Java style guides advise to use spaces, it seems to be the way to go. Now, provided we agree to default to spaces in the majority of the popular programming languages modes, what's the reasoning not to flip the default? Have I missed some important languages (note that Python and Ruby are already covered), or is using tabs supposed to be beneficial for the text modes?