From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20322: 25.0.50; indent-tabs-mode should default to nil Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:24:54 +0300 Message-ID: <552D7796.2090109@yandex.ru> References: <861tjn3069.fsf@yandex.ru> <552D20B6.8030005@yandex.ru> <83mw2abul3.fsf@gnu.org> <552D34BC.4090806@yandex.ru> <83h9sibt0q.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1429043186 17435 80.91.229.3 (14 Apr 2015 20:26:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:26:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 20322@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 14 22:26:11 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yi7PO-0004I5-Ta for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:26:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57856 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yi7PO-0005Mq-1g for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:26:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41837) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yi7PJ-0005JG-Nh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:26:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yi7PG-0001Gz-HK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:26:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:38451) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yi7PG-0001Gu-Ee for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:26:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yi7PG-000568-1m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:26:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:26:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20322 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20322-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20322.142904310719535 (code B ref 20322); Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:26:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20322) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Apr 2015 20:25:07 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56460 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yi7OM-000551-HA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:25:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-f176.google.com ([209.85.212.176]:38255) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yi7OJ-00054Q-TV for 20322@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:25:04 -0400 Original-Received: by wiun10 with SMTP id n10so35964155wiu.1 for <20322@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:24:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=B/wjK64AlQ3l4YTQzy9xpUCTLEcKp7jYoBtFh/+1EfQ=; b=nnpdf9ycsfiMpXB+lhsr9ddCKQ1WnDYKe24zrjNM1KwtAFmn5sXJvRhi1UrlGItMTS 8f1Gsbr75qc4NBRbKf8+ZJ2m0AAp+CwvW/rjGcuZDeE9iAQZVhyEPnot/q9/yBaluhvx V62nrBHHS4eMeWR+Iy7cCOf5x0MJHHdPAsXzi0B3+00UtQ01XuTvPlLWh828ddW/EIbv BzAuA361LDI52AAY1TOT7BHo+VhUsbdsZIBGiKAMy7sxLxpcFTw7r1OgFTTST+N5hRzi FKPuHEviqN+uHGmDLpmmTmWfcybotQ+cgQz3peYVZ1UYHM1v3+CPBh51Kne7AYWx1vfQ ZG6g== X-Received: by 10.180.83.130 with SMTP id q2mr34939053wiy.89.1429043098032; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([82.102.93.54]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id mc20sm4239536wic.15.2015.04.14.13.24.56 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:24:57 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:36.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/36.0 In-Reply-To: <83h9sibt0q.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:101533 Archived-At: On 04/14/2015 06:59 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Then by all means let's fix those modes whose defaults aren't. So, most of them? Like I said, in the end that would call for the change of the default value. In the meantime, should we have an xxx-indent-tabs-mode variable per major mode? Here's some statistics: http://sideeffect.kr/popularconvention/#java (you can click on the language names), sources at https://github.com/outsideris/popularconvention I understand that C (and, to lesser extent, C++) have a lot of history, and a lot of variance in their communities. But the only semi-official style guide I could find that advises to use tabs in the Linux kernel one: http://www.maultech.com/chrislott/resources/cstyle/LinuxKernelCodingStyle.txt The GNU coding style, to the best of my understanding, does not mention tabs at all. > The vast majority of people I work with use tabs, FWIW. Do they use 8-column offsets, then? >> Even folks who want tabs have to configure stuff, because of our >> `tab-width' default (which is indeed something we cannot change now): >> http://stackoverflow.com/a/21788651/615245 > > Our tab-width default is simply the default tab width everywhere. I'm not sure what you mean by that, but my point was, the defaults are not suitable as-is (even) for a certain part of our users that use tabs.