From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20056: 25.0.50; Remove non Common Lisp stuff from cl*.el libraries Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:11:15 -0700 Message-ID: <54FC9ED3.9000102@dancol.org> References: <54FC9340.2030703@dancol.org> <4fd5309f-c0bd-486d-8612-a2f724643a2e@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mM3xvvTKmvbFDeCvh6jEbkL8cTqAce1ri" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1425841952 9151 80.91.229.3 (8 Mar 2015 19:12:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 19:12:32 +0000 (UTC) To: Drew Adams , 20056@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 08 20:12:20 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YUgce-0004oO-8f for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 20:12:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40209 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUgcd-0001wh-Fm for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 15:12:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59505) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUgcW-0001rQ-R9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 15:12:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUgcO-0006Gm-Cq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 15:12:12 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:41191) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUgcO-0006Gh-1v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 15:12:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YUgcN-0001kT-TW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 15:12:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Daniel Colascione Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2015 19:12:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20056 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20056-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20056.14258418856629 (code B ref 20056); Sun, 08 Mar 2015 19:12:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20056) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2015 19:11:25 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39751 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YUgbl-0001ir-74 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 15:11:25 -0400 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([96.126.100.184]:39753) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YUgbi-0001ih-G1 for 20056@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 15:11:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=5e0quQv8HIFQnBv486Tq3p60wdTnaNkqt9XDtRhdkOI=; b=ksUsAT5X8bjfPH1ljgZgIXQkv9NbIcttlKp1Za/JQSghWupsvIEUUxy6KUfWTZEZiaaxbWG1g094zLGKM8wCmajiPVsnl+x77sOKQap/ew+j9QQ4iunIHR71NXhp2bSE80HgbfkwaMY8pimyMeskKbifcD3Q0Mm6PXXGedlvuvKva9cwQ6MJINPFXgcoTcqDHFZCQGIj/k/Lsy+ca7PDF9yr+EI8sTkKVGQnnbNEnV89P5hRTh+SfC2+ooi7lTYmQRQzhVY7nJifTep/8Voseaoua5/rwuOuoC2LsN5wshJ8Mb2hXoskz1756GVZvwucCNBu3km4XWcFlKGnHmPmxA==; Original-Received: from c-73-221-38-18.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([73.221.38.18] helo=[192.168.1.210]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1YUgbg-0006sO-0I; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:11:20 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 In-Reply-To: <4fd5309f-c0bd-486d-8612-a2f724643a2e@default> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:100288 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --mM3xvvTKmvbFDeCvh6jEbkL8cTqAce1ri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 03/08/2015 11:46 AM, Drew Adams wrote: >> Even cl functions that have the same names as functions in Common Lisp= >> don't always have the same features or semantics. I don't think it's >> very important that the cl package mirror Common Lisp. >=20 > That is something quite different. Those differences are pointed > out, and the aim is to emulate Common Lisp, however imperfectly > we might be able to (or might want to) do so at any given time. >=20 > There is no reason to misleadingly add stuff to our emulation > library that has no counterpart is Common Lisp - is not > emulating anything there. It is even worse to use names that > make it look as if these do correspond to Common Lisp things. >=20 > It is perfectly fine for Emacs to add things that Common Lisp > does not have/do. But it should add them elsewhere from the > `cl*.el' files, and document them elsewhere than in manual CL. Why? Some things (like letf) are just natural extensions of facilities we got from Common Lisp. Keep in mind that they didn't start out under the cl namespace either. They were just there along with everything else when we created cl-lib. I don't think you've explained the downside of extending CL in the cl- namespace. You've articulated an aesthetic point, but I don't see any negative technical consequences. --mM3xvvTKmvbFDeCvh6jEbkL8cTqAce1ri Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU/J7TAAoJEN4WImmbpWBlO20QAI7WEgJVDwth7It0dLUleO/0 6TCSNOdNQ3PKmxqTbIxPy002AiKBo8jjkbvjySrKgppQ0VV3uqoPCQqEbkEN56mB +jkzdlzEC/SbZH9eXjGOYiEqeH1nNEXG/aG8sXyPPhzhKkbzHCvGtDBYQ9Sw6k4t sdTA06vKdqqhyDdj6FDYlyBO+3Hh4kmjLnCaPB1FTiuqnBqFvOhtR4pE03JWAetN gUIqREp/NjPA4pjCCqps9jJxmpPFeQ88eGbx4IULQch1pX8xFi1TQ130hO3kLG/U lQy2ku4A90iflgOe2OwDIpm8xNr1a9hqE+4tBLXfRB4b2l5vSzbyRhlow6vx93ao ghC/qjUC8HuIJ4Jgj31B3mNFchPgTeeNud190Mz1LZrdMb4Qvs9ForJYktpCIzvd /qhiFBFdhu1G5WmD741Qi3VFVm6RdCoGC7tm97f0CnCKe3X7YuovtaBoiCbk+RGO nczNjYdCBtQo26WjZjMO1ij35jJMd6v290mKaIRnU8N1rWGetDfse6Y7zIfoC/ve bySfBYWb/FCuUYImvOhdKrtc8WUHMUESIm6DJtt2MgiMXuJs9Ky19MxQGKVcSxBo glLp59gabT4cc2VDnA469tp928aSVpC/+3P1LbstuVotEjR3HSMZ417amlSQuSga lbjAowZmhYR1YgTcC60a =zoTk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mM3xvvTKmvbFDeCvh6jEbkL8cTqAce1ri--