From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: martin rudalics Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#19012: 25.0.50; `help-window-select' Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:29:15 +0100 Message-ID: <5469BFEB.6060506@gmx.at> References: <561951d1-fee4-44ea-bc22-d354b007601d@default> <54646172.7020801@gmx.at> <5464DC39.4020703@gmx.at> <5464FCD5.6070201@gmx.at> <66cb622a-236c-4e8d-a7ba-cb1de310bb05@default> <5465E967.1050304@gmx.at> <41926108-7556-4b72-ae2c-60933b4ff187@default> <5466300D.2030708@gmx.at> <75786231-f3a3-420f-a0d8-4960e09c720e@default> <54663E6F.6010702@gmx.at> <5453eef4-1955-4b79-819a-43786f56a8cc@default> <5466457F.8000400@gmx.at> <54664AF4.9000606@gmx.at> <97868572-923b-4f0a-bd16-b4d475ddb002@default> <5466532C.2040003@gmx.at> <2b53c981-eaef-47f3-850a-6367b4cd5dc1@default> <546737E1.6010406@gmx.at> <54688C53.6060204@gmx.at> <5468E08D.4050508@gmx.at> <4ea1b6ca-cab4-4d61-97a5-5e17933c9f89@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1416216630 11035 80.91.229.3 (17 Nov 2014 09:30:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 09:30:30 +0000 (UTC) To: Drew Adams , 19012@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 17 10:30:23 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XqIda-0000VK-Db for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:30:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46838 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XqIdZ-0005tA-Tk for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 04:30:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59125) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XqIdP-0005so-Av for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 04:30:19 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XqIdH-0005eg-Rd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 04:30:11 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:38541) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XqIdH-0005e3-PC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 04:30:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XqIdH-0002el-8H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 04:30:03 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: martin rudalics Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 09:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19012 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 19012-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19012.141621656410041 (code B ref 19012); Mon, 17 Nov 2014 09:30:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 19012) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2014 09:29:24 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35750 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XqIce-0002bt-BM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 04:29:24 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:62639) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XqIcb-0002bd-RA for 19012@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 04:29:23 -0500 Original-Received: from [178.191.143.215] ([178.191.143.215]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LtIZH-1Xx3eo2Amp-012rLo; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:29:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4ea1b6ca-cab4-4d61-97a5-5e17933c9f89@default> X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:7rwHefj9O/Zcc4je0lq06G+G0zN+jGLWTWKkSxWmZ90GTPtIDm6 N4Gf1jfhWbF/py1XE8szKx/V5qizquNsgIlaCGLZj2erHL1AbBmcrLdqbMVIViS9H1e92yC rMARoYdc9HYyqIbcvM4Us2gS7Am/DVgBL1aJLbF91/O/6qh9mzwsi0511e5i3TXwnIGgF/1 CDQmjnxLfSiRgi1RsWz2A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:96145 > How so? Can you discuss those problems? Is adding that sexp > to `help-window-setup' worse than if the equivalent behavior > were done in `with-output-to-temp-buffer'? IOW, if a user > fiddles with the temp-buffer hooks, is that workaround any > less problematic? Not for the user. But users fiddling with these hooks affect their own systems only. > If so, maybe you can fix the problem by doing the equivalent > of a user fiddling with hooks that way. IOW, maybe put that > code in the code that runs the hooks, instead of telling > users put it in the hooks. Again I would affect users who don't work with multiple frames. > I'm speculating, because you have said nothing about what > the problems are that make things "less simple than [you] > thought initially". I initially thought (like you did too) that Emacs would not send a request to focus a frame that already has focus. After looking into this I noticed that it does send a request unconditionally. >> It sends a request to the window manager because Emacs doesn't >> necessarily check whether the frame already has focus. This >> might not harm on Windows but it might harm on other platforms. > > Then either (1) do it and wait to see if problems are reported > for other platforms or (2) do it just for Windows (that's simple > enough to do). It's not nice to do that even for Windows only. > IOW why make the ideal into the enemy of the good? And why > assume that there will be problems on other platforms? Because I try to be as minimally invasive as possible. > I appreciate your efforts on this (whether you think so or > not). I am certain that if you try to improve the situation > for this use case you can do so, and without spoiling other > behavior, even if the fix might not be 100% perfect. Please > give it a try. I'll do that. martin