From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `' Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2014 09:26:29 -0800 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <52C6F2C5.10505@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20131229220810.GF7972@boo.workgroup> <52C0E734.4090403@cs.ucla.edu> <83sita1cbw.fsf@gnu.org> <52C1C456.2080004@cs.ucla.edu> <83fvpa16kh.fsf@gnu.org> <52C25D07.80808@cs.ucla.edu> <8338l91l2t.fsf@gnu.org> <52C4C95C.2010905@cs.ucla.edu> <837gajyrq1.fsf@gnu.org> <52C4F008.5060003@cs.ucla.edu> <83zjnextyg.fsf@gnu.org> <52C5BDD1.2050009@cs.ucla.edu> <83ppoaxfu6.fsf@gnu.org> <52C607DA.3090009@cs.ucla.edu> <83fvp5xzk0.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388770043 7368 80.91.229.3 (3 Jan 2014 17:27:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 17:27:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 16292@debbugs.gnu.org, grfz@gmx.de To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 03 18:27:28 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vz8Wo-00019x-Ov for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Fri, 3 Jan 2014 09:26:33 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 In-Reply-To: <83fvp5xzk0.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:82862 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> These are very rare (and I would argue will look ugly any >>> way you typeset them). >> >> They're not that rare: for example, I count 949 info lines >> containing both straight and the curly apostrophes, with >> many opportunities for confusion. > > That's rare in my book Well, at least I appreciate the promotion from "very rare" to "rare". :-) It's still too common for comfort. > We've been living with `C-x '' forever But we're migrating away from it, which is partly what prompted this discussion. The question now is whether to prefer ‘C-x '’ or 'C-x ''. Of the three notations, ‘C-x '’ is the least confusing, and 'C-x '' the most. > And if we really care, we can customize > OPEN_QUOTE_SYMBOL in Texinfo 5. We should not really care about it. The Texinfo defaults are OK. > The systematic principle I propose is to convert everything except > letters, i.e. only punctuation and special characters. From the viewpoint of the unibyte reader that's just weird. Why should "ß" be converted to mojibake (destroying the point of a code example) while "•" is converted to "*" (a mere formatting nicety)? To be honest, though, I think the whole idea of converting is wrong, and as long as it's not the default I don't really care. If people complain about the conversion I'll just say "don't do the conversion". (Or send them to you. :-) > It would be a priority if we decide to make that cp-ascii'd output the > default. That's not likely. The general consensus seems to be that Emacs should just use whatever Texinfo produces by default. The proper place to reargue what Texinfo does should be in the Texinfo forums. Even cp-ascii goes too far, in my opinion; I think we should just switch to UTF-8 and be done with it. But I'm willing to go along with cp-ascii as a compromise, so long as it's not the default. If this turns into a problem in practice, and Emacs builders and/or distributors enable the cp-ascii option more often than not, we can change the default to use cp-ascii, and use this as good evidence to argue for a change to 'makeinfo'. (This is an unlikely scenario in my view.)