From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13686: hi-yellow vs. hi-lock-1 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:58:10 -0800 Message-ID: <527A8B2FB8E742F9AC4063C8B3957071@us.oracle.com> References: <878v6vidh7.fsf@gmail.com> <7BC00EAA1AF8466D8F9C17B3CA4E82B8@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1361941158 524 80.91.229.3 (27 Feb 2013 04:59:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 04:59:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'David Koppelman' , 13686@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Stefan Monnier'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 27 05:59:40 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UAZ7E-0004TB-5o for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 05:59:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35976 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UAZ6t-0003VA-13 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:59:19 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35594) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UAZ6p-0003Od-S0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:59:16 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UAZ6o-0006p3-F0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:59:15 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:46733) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UAZ6o-0006ow-BT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:59:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UAZ8Y-0000Hi-As for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 00:01:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 05:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13686 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 13686-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13686.13619412091026 (code B ref 13686); Wed, 27 Feb 2013 05:01:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 13686) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2013 05:00:09 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52195 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UAZ7g-0000GV-Kb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 00:00:08 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:42307) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UAZ7e-0000GM-Bm for 13686@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 00:00:07 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r1R4wFZf031901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Feb 2013 04:58:16 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r1R4wFwt025641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 Feb 2013 04:58:15 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt118.oracle.com (abhmt118.oracle.com [141.146.116.70]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1R4wEj3006352; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 22:58:15 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.140.20) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:58:14 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac4UisvyOcaWuETPR9icwb/QFElKUAAGZVMA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:71884 Archived-At: > > The main point is that it makes little sense for a face, which is > > a variable thingy (changeable, customizable), to have a name that > > suggests otherwise, i.e., suggests that it has some _particular_, > > constant quality. > > If the user sets the hi-yellow face to red, she gets what she > deserves. Really? What dos she deserve? Are you saying that there is some reason she should not customize the face? Why use a face then? > > The face name should reflect what the face is for - the kind of > > highlighting or whatever that it does. > > Agreed, and hi-yellow is for highlighting some text in yellow, hence > its name. If that's really what it's for, then the name is apt. In that case, a customizable face is not what's needed. Or else maybe one where you somehow limit the customization regarding color for various attributes. > The only real problem is that a user who wants to use a face whose > attribute do not agree with any of the predefined hi-* faces might end > up forced to use such a silly setting. If you provide a customizable face where you don't want one, and you don't limit it in any way, that's the silliness. It is not silly for a user to use an allowed value. > So the right fix is to provide ways for the user to add her own faces. That would not change the anomalous `hi-' faces. It would not prevent the silly settings you mention. > An alternative might be to let the user specify either a face name or > a color name, so we can get rid of hi-yellow altogether. But > that still only caters to "highlighting with a color", whereas faces > offer more choices. Let the user choose a color. And let the user choose other attributes. And if you're going to do all that, then just let the user customize faces, which do not have any static, inherent colors, even if they might unfortunately have a color in their names. IOW, just rename the faces based on what they are really for, not on particular colors. Oh, but you said that "hi-yellow is for highlighting...in yellow". In that case, it is not also about using other face attributes. Time to choose.