From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: martin rudalics Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#8368: 24.0.50; "temp" means "help" - rename or at least document Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 10:08:57 +0200 Message-ID: <4F9F9A19.30402@gmx.at> References: <4F9BA96C.8070005@gmx.at> <4573CB93BA8F47DD922007A8C8CF3EB3@us.oracle.com> <4F9D1AB8.5090302@gmx.at> <2F5D2C7A2A6D44A3B25C5891EFEF7DF0@us.oracle.com> <4F9E5E08.4030400@gmx.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1335859785 15110 80.91.229.3 (1 May 2012 08:09:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 08:09:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' , 8368@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 01 10:09:44 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SP89X-0003It-QI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 May 2012 10:09:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56102 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SP89X-00059J-34 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 May 2012 04:09:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50112) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SP89U-00054y-Ao for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 01 May 2012 04:09:41 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SP89R-00047H-GV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 01 May 2012 04:09:39 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:58823) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SP89R-000476-D3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 01 May 2012 04:09:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SP8Ao-000463-Mo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 01 May 2012 04:11:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: martin rudalics Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 08:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 8368 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 8368-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B8368.133585983315696 (code B ref 8368); Tue, 01 May 2012 08:11:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 8368) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2012 08:10:33 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59853 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SP8AK-000455-AU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 May 2012 04:10:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.23]:56028) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SP8AI-00044s-EL for 8368@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 May 2012 04:10:31 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 01 May 2012 08:08:58 -0000 Original-Received: from 62-47-47-233.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.47.233]) [62.47.47.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp031) with SMTP; 01 May 2012 10:08:58 +0200 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+55k0gQTS5Zvi/mDZ5S9bq9em0lIZvklQtn3cQeU rd4MAiAOf3Qwjf In-Reply-To: X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:59668 Archived-At: > IF a programmer wants a temp buffer without that help > stuff then s?he can do something like what I wrote, as a workaround: define a > macro that uses `w-o-t-t-b', but first removes the help-stuff hooks and restores > them afterward. That's all. S?he could also write such a macro from scratch and post the result here together with a suitable name. > Your suggestion was IIUC to instead use `w-o-t-t-b' and just turn off help-mode > in the BODY. OK, but that means that help-mode is entered and exited for > nothing - the hooks are run uselessly. Who cares? The overhead for removing and adding a hook (with all the necessary protection) is just as high. > That's all I was pointing out. Nothing > wrong with such useless work, but it, like my workaround, does not seem like the > solution to the problem. We agree here. >> Obviously, dealing with `temp-buffer-show-hook' in >> `with-output-to-plain-temp-buffer' isn't necessary either if you don't >> run `help-mode-setup' before. > > Ah, yes. Of course that means paying even more attention etc. > > Anyway, thanks for thinking about this. I really would like to see Emacs fixed > in this regard. To my mind (not having thought much about it, and being pretty > ignorant about it), I would think that inheritance could be used to factor out > the stuff that is not specifically for help mode (i.e., have the help-mode stuff > inherit from that). That's the way to go, yes. The question is rather one of how to avoid confusing users when we have, for example, a `temp-buffer-setup-hook' and a `plain-temp-buffer-setup-hook' and BOTH get run when we invoke the inheriting macro. martin