From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#6616: S-TAB is mismapped in the *Help* buffer Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 18:57:50 -0700 Message-ID: <4CD0D87139BC44498B99843347AF787B@us.oracle.com> References: <4C3AB426.2040500@gmail.com> <83pqyssj5a.fsf@gnu.org><83mxtwsei9.fsf@gnu.org> <4C3BFCB6.8000002@gmail.com> <4C55B0F9.1060101@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1280714915 31315 80.91.229.12 (2 Aug 2010 02:08:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 02:08:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Adrian Robert' , 6616@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Paul Griepentrog'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 02 04:08:34 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfkS8-0002Hw-BI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 04:08:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36530 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OfkS7-0000TT-J9 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:08:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=49581 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OfkRd-0000IP-Fr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:08:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfkRc-0001rD-5P for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:08:01 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:47246) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfkRc-0001r9-3Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:08:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfkHx-0007qR-LW; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 21:58:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 01:58:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6616 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 6616-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6616.128071425330149 (code B ref 6616); Mon, 02 Aug 2010 01:58:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 6616) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2010 01:57:33 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfkHV-0007qE-GI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 21:57:33 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfkHT-0007q8-71 for 6616@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 21:57:31 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o721vpWr014119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 2 Aug 2010 01:57:52 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o71NpoLG012257; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 01:57:50 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt020.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 456335961280714269; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 18:57:49 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.219.98) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 18:57:49 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acsx1tn6lYRStIbnSK6MM4d0XJbAHQADmqsw In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4C56261F.0084:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 21:58:01 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:39124 Archived-At: > > I say, pick a solution and make it consistent across the modes > > shipped with Emacs. IMHO, [S-tab] is the 'correct' binding, > > since we press those actual keys. > > In most cases I've seen `backtab' is the "correct" binding > because it's > the one that makes logical sense: the command is about doing something > in the opposite direction from what the `tab' key does. > The reason why S-tab is (also) used is that `backtab' is rarely > available, and as a convention we use S-tab as a poor man's backtab. Hm. Then perhaps I do disagree. I thought that I had misunderstood and this was not, after all, about binding the S-tab or backtab key to any given command by default, but it was just about linking S-tab to backtab (both being keys). I would oppose binding either key to some command everywhere, "fallback" or not. As soon as that happens we will get people who complain if a 3rd-party library binds S-tab, even optionally or via an initialization command. S-tab and backtab keys can be linked to each other by default for convenience, but they should both be free of any command by default - except in particular contexts (e.g. *Help*, Info). BTW, there are not only the S-tab and backtab keys that should (perhaps) be linked together by default, but also the S-iso-tab key. Typically, when code binds S-tab it also needs to bind S-iso-tab. At least in some cases, we have already taken care of that via backtab, IIRC.