From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Griepentrog Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#6616: S-TAB is mismapped in the *Help* buffer Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:38:01 -0700 Message-ID: <4C55B0F9.1060101@gmail.com> References: <4C3AB426.2040500@gmail.com> <83pqyssj5a.fsf@gnu.org> <83mxtwsei9.fsf@gnu.org> <4C3BFCB6.8000002@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1280686090 16939 80.91.229.12 (1 Aug 2010 18:08:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 18:08:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Adrian Robert , 6616@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 01 20:08:08 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfcxD-0007ua-TQ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 20:08:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57784 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OfcxC-0005Zq-Tb for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:08:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41274 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ofcx4-0005ZU-94 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:07:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ofcx2-0005Rx-ST for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:07:58 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:57375) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ofcx2-0005Rt-QD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:07:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfcU6-0003rA-9C; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:38:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Paul Griepentrog Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 17:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6616 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 6616-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6616.128068426514815 (code B ref 6616); Sun, 01 Aug 2010 17:38:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 6616) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2010 17:37:45 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfcTp-0003qs-1z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:37:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pv0-f172.google.com ([74.125.83.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfcTm-0003qm-NQ for 6616@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:37:43 -0400 Original-Received: by pvd12 with SMTP id 12so1061779pvd.3 for <6616@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:38:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=937b6PXnTo+hjB73MbThpVKGx6VKmVtZ/uWLW1SA3KQ=; b=XgnTyMSdxnbo6Oe7BfD5dwhMxc25Ll+RHipqaY6WusaRo2caWtSphTLJh5iKcYuusg ZgiMXFBYALC2EB+1qIzl3rxIBtCfwQRpotqU04S91E8dbrWJARP06iX8dVuQRDWbfipq 5G8X6Ng6z5XD+W3HqPuoQS8NTg/ekw2BRkIY8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=opZS84saaJFLGoV5lxvjurC3wSIIuJ5pObAhCi4go6T4283CFo62V0fDPuxx5xsxrk Z+EoDf9sYCTRj3KpM2jnC1KcVArdETBE1KfacKwRAnIpZXEWnPdX73eFiJ9ZPGcL1GTE C+dK7j8f0+3uZjEIskSsio8/KArPrsY1drVEU= Original-Received: by 10.114.79.1 with SMTP id c1mr5931565wab.1.1280684283206; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from walnut.local (c-76-102-20-45.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.102.20.45]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q6sm9402595waj.22.2010.08.01.10.38.02 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:38:02 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.1.1 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:38:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:39106 Archived-At: On 7/31/10 5:04 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > and binding [S-tab] to [backtab] in the `ns-alternatives-map' instead? > > Actually, we might want to do that everywhere, rather than only in > x-win.el and ns-win.el. Thinking more about the problem, I think the confusion comes from a perfect storm of evolution: - The [backtab] key does not exist on modern keyboards, but several modes define keybindings only for [backtab]. (See erc, grep, compile, ses, diff-mode and log-view.) - But, X and Windows translate [S-tab] into [backtab], so you don't even notice this unless you're working on a platform/ terminal without this mapping, for example: Mac OS X. - Add to that: people treat [backtab] as logically the same as [S-tab], even though they are different key presses when you have a [backtab] key. As a developer, I would be confused. I need to map both for my mode to be consistent across terminals/platforms. Several modes do this exactly. (See forms, info, widget, org, and mh.) I say, pick a solution and make it consistent across the modes shipped with Emacs. IMHO, [S-tab] is the 'correct' binding, since we press those actual keys. Update all the modes using [backtab] to use [S-tab]. Now, anybody who has a [backtab] key can actually use it, and the rest continue with [S-tab], like they always did. For compatibility with external modes, we could map [backtab] to [S-tab]. I can offer a patch to this effect.