From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Olivier Certner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#63072: 28.2; CC Mode: Fix "bsd" style and add "freebsd" and "openbsd" ones Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:15:44 +0200 Message-ID: <4916306.ghxcXLinNW@ravel> References: <5023567.7IPSAfTSoR@ravel> <83cz3qtyno.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2715"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 63072@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 19 18:16:11 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qidOU-0000US-HK for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:16:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qidON-0006vk-En; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 12:16:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qidOD-0006pc-FE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 12:15:55 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qidOD-0006lB-6U for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 12:15:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qidOM-00037X-1g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 12:16:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Olivier Certner Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 63072 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 63072-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B63072.169514016111992 (code B ref 63072); Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:16:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 63072) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2023 16:16:01 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57707 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qidOL-00037I-1R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 12:16:01 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp2-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.2]:30088) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qidOH-000377-EX for 63072@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 12:16:00 -0400 Original-Received: from ravel.localnet (unknown [90.118.140.172]) (Authenticated sender: ocert.dev@free.fr) by smtp2-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1D9532006AE; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:15:45 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=free.fr; s=smtp-20201208; t=1695140147; bh=+AqLip9N/HSfOjn/w5GBSroHresLvJClepfAs+ceiLo=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=dFP9N3fqKvHfurYBeX5GDY2Bv5zCHHFwbH3IevRGYAP3o5QuCWKEmVhkyJTjCOxCf r915esU9odw4/kmN765xcVHKDjGrJTfQ0OqHzVyQnwYzmJYlWaBFq4FNZHxHF2gEAI 9tGXTWvHrP69xWLPpbAWyOtQ+Fvb6c0M1KDTtk+07SyyM6Lioptk+9UHoiFLaJVFA4 YcvlBydZF/RZ7Los/4389jALg+5UTPjDN7U4MKVj4Uupe5Qb2vOqNDXpF7A0bMThmx JC1S49/1v3yQ4X6SyK01b+MB0uPtR5/BlSrMADniEJpASuZPKZ8cIPUOv/3QlahckC wglTU+4MepfwA== In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:270886 Archived-At: Hi Stefan, > Ping. Any progress with coming up with a patch? I have been using a complete version since a short time after creation of this bug, but haven't had much time to work on upstreaming that, and probably won't in the coming weeks. Refining the new styles to cope with some corner cases unfortunately required a couple of new fixup functions, and minor changes in CC mode that may be controversial, such as setting all variables as buffer-local when `c-style- variables-are-local-p' is true, or working around the weird behavior of CC mode concerning `for' clauses (this one surely proved controversial, see #63286; it is possible to do away with a lineup function as a workaround, at the price of elegance and performance, but this is not the current setup I'm running so coming back to a vanilla one will require more work on my part). Additionally, given the fallout of #63286, I think you can understand I'm not contemplating a new discussion with the CC mode maintainer with great joy. In the context of this bug, being looked down on by someone who provided mostly wrong technical answers and that otherwise showed a pronounced tendency to spread FUD is not exactly my conception of an enriching collaboration. Certainly, my final answer there wasn't neat, but "as you sow, so shall you reap". More generally, I've found that interacting with upstream often wastes way too much time than it should simply because people don't really read carefully what they have been sent and/or have trouble with the nuances, sometimes even insisting on focusing on mostly irrelevant details. You don't have to search far for an example, look no further than this bug's initial discussion. I unfortunately know of several other examples, half of which I've personally not been involved in at all. At a higher level, to put it bluntly (and exaggerating in order to make sure the point gets through), a sample of discussions in the mailing list in the past months gives more the impression of a clique wanting to preserve their own way of working/thinking rather than genuinely addressing the concerns of other users and developers (yes, most of them are "outsiders", which is the reason why some "insiders" apparently think they know better even concerning their own requests). Besides the atmosphere that all this creates, more practically I don't have much time to contribute here so when I do so it's a significant effort on my part. In exchange, I *demand* that others be respectful for that by making the effort of carefully reading and understanding what I'm writing, and trying to stay to the point as much as possible. Else, I'm simply likely to loose interest and keep all my Emacs developments and customizations for myself (in 20+ years, they are numerous). I'm hoping your nomination as a co-maintainer will help improve this situation, so I'm sorry to have had to drop that on you. I've not given up on the idea to finally be able to upstream all that, but it most likely won't happen in the short term (next weeks/a few months) for time constraints. Also, I hope that, when the time comes, the next interactions will be treated with the goodwill and productivity I expect (and which some of the "core" members have already shown they are largely capable of to me). So this bug is effectively on hold on my side. I would simply leave it open for the time being, but then it's your call on how you want to manage that administratively. If you prefer to have a clean backlog, you can close it and I'll re-open it later when I'm ready. Thanks and regards. -- Olivier Certner