From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#631: the M- notation suggestion Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:38:10 +0200 Message-ID: <4896EA22.1050407@gmail.com> References: <4891F6BC.8010505@gmail.com> <871w19utma.GNU's_Not_Unix!%yavor@gnu.org> <86ej55ujaf.fsf@macs.hw.ac.uk> Reply-To: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" , 631@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217850507 16500 80.91.229.12 (4 Aug 2008 11:48:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:48:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: xah lee , Yavor Doganov To: Joe Wells , 631@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 04 13:49:17 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KPyYr-0003pU-4C for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:49:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34067 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KPyXw-0001d8-8m for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:48:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KPyXC-0001Dn-1g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:47:30 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KPyXA-0001CT-6s for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:47:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=35190 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KPyX9-0001CN-Vw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:47:28 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:55776) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KPyX7-0002jN-Od for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:47:27 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m74BlMEL003371; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 04:47:23 -0700 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id m74Bj3l3002121; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 04:45:03 -0700 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Resent-From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:45:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 631 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 631-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B631.1217849907519 (code B ref 631); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:45:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 631) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 4 Aug 2008 11:38:27 +0000 Original-Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.212]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m74BcNqu000513 for <631@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 04:38:25 -0700 Original-Received: from c83-254-151-176.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.151.176]:65267 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KPyOM-0004U4-5d; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:38:23 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: <86ej55ujaf.fsf@macs.hw.ac.uk> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080804-0, 2008-08-04), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.151.176 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1KPyOM-0004U4-5d. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1KPyOM-0004U4-5d f39d66bc0d8e0245f436fc23bb34ac9e X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by rzlab.ucr.edu id m74BlMEL003371 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:47:28 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:19004 Archived-At: Joe Wells wrote: > xah lee writes: >=20 >> The proposed change doesn't actually effect elisp code. It is primarly >> esthetic in nature. >=20 > This is not true. There are many places in the Emacs Lisp code which > recognize the M- and C- notation. Thanks Joe for this list. I am thinking about the possibility to just change what is shown in=20 menus and help texts (see my earlier reply to Xah's bug report). Such a=20 change would of course be optional, but might help new users. With such a change there would of course be a steop for new users when=20 they are just frustrated because they do not understand how to do key=20 bindings, "why does not (kbd "Alt-") work?", etc. And the manual would probably better still use the current notation=20 (with a note about the new notation) because it is static and is read on=20 different platform. So everything would not be better, but the initial=20 treshold would probably be lower. Can you see any technical trouble with the changes I am suggesting could=20 be done? > First, there is the read syntax (I'm using Emacs 22.1): >=20 > ?\M-A =E2=87=92 134217793 > ?\M-\C-b =E2=87=92 134217730 >=20 > "\M-A" =E2=87=92 "\301" (yes, this is a bit different behavior for M-= A) >=20 > Then, there is the convention of making symbol names with prefixes for > use in key bindings: >=20 > M-f3 > M-mouse-1 > M-drag-mouse-2 > M-double-mouse-2 >=20 > Then, there is the lovely kbd macro for use in key bindings: >=20 > (kbd "C-M-") =E2=87=92 [C-M-down] >=20 > Then, there is the use of the M- and C- notation by edit-kbd-macro. >=20 > Then, there are the key-description, single-key-description, and > read-kbd-macro functions: >=20 > (key-description [?\M-3 delete]) =E2=87=92 "M-3 " >=20 > There is also the text-char-description function. >=20