From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#14734: 24.3.50; REGRESSION: defadvice broken wrt doc strings (C-h f) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 14:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <45e03b9a-0b57-4ce9-b4da-04060fd902f7@default> References: <9cf39b5d-d100-4b72-bf78-95f6cee0d8c0@default> <87a9mat176.fsf@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1372456688 19438 80.91.229.3 (28 Jun 2013 21:58:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:58:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 14734@debbugs.gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 28 23:58:07 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UsggB-00064b-I2 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 28 Jun 2013 23:58:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34783 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UsggB-0003T6-6D for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 28 Jun 2013 17:58:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34575) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Usgg7-0003Sl-4I for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jun 2013 17:58:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Usgg6-0006yo-6B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jun 2013 17:58:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:53049) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Usgg6-0006yh-3R for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jun 2013 17:58:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Usgg5-0007IJ-Pg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jun 2013 17:58:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:58:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14734 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 14734-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14734.137245662827937 (code B ref 14734); Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:58:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 14734) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jun 2013 21:57:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47364 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UsgfD-0007GU-BV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jun 2013 17:57:07 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:22084) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UsgfA-0007Fx-6o for 14734@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jun 2013 17:57:05 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r5SLocIE023320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:50:38 GMT Original-Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r5SLuu6h016808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:56:56 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt106.oracle.com (abhmt106.oracle.com [141.146.116.58]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r5SLutIl016796; Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:56:55 GMT In-Reply-To: <87a9mat176.fsf@yandex.ru> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:75691 Archived-At: > > The change introduced is horrible for users. Now they see only > > the original doc string, plus a link that will be incomprehensible > > to many (so skipped over by them): >=20 > You're overdramatizing. It's less convenient, but far from "horrible". >=20 > > Not only can Emacs do better, it always HAS. This is a real step > > backward for users. Intentional or not. I'm reopening the bug. > > I hope you will seriously consider reverting the misguided changes > > that introduced this regression. >=20 > It's obviously the result of advice.el being re-implemented using > nadvice.el, for backward compatibility. Having a minor regression in > functionality in this kind of situation is fairly normal. If your point of view is only that of an implementor, you see only "less convenient", "minor regression", and "fairly normal". You see the regression as just "a result of ... being reimplemented", as if design and the user experience do not matter. Implementation leads. If your point of view is that of a user, the result is a real step backward and, yes, pretty horrible. The design should lead, for users. One opinion, of course. And just why did something already implemented (and stable for years) need to be REimplemented "for backward compatibility"? Why did adding something new and different and presumably better require ALSO reimplementing something that was already, by definition, backward compatible?