From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregory Heytings Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#48337: Fwd: 28.0.50; Emacs crashing randomly (possibly minibuffer activity related) Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 17:31:12 +0000 Message-ID: <425cd7715b1381e29e4c@heytings.org> References: <87tunasd2u.fsf@linaro.org> <83fsyu57oj.fsf@gnu.org> <838s4l5uld.fsf@gnu.org> <83zgx14cal.fsf@gnu.org> <83cztx3v04.fsf@gnu.org> <37291ae0-11cb-c817-cf26-b90ad50bfaaa@gmx.at> <425cd7715b658794b4e1@heytings.org> <83r1i9xpvk.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30940"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 48337@debbugs.gnu.org, alex.bennee@linaro.org, acm@muc.de To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 14 19:37:48 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lhbky-0007tq-Mb for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 14 May 2021 19:37:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38020 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhbkx-0006hV-Ns for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 14 May 2021 13:37:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37564) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhbfO-0003TR-Iz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 May 2021 13:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:35427) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhbfO-0007wz-4T for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 May 2021 13:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lhbfN-0006P5-Vv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 May 2021 13:32:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Gregory Heytings Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 17:32:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 48337 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 48337-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B48337.162101348224563 (code B ref 48337); Fri, 14 May 2021 17:32:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 48337) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2021 17:31:22 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46973 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lhbej-0006O7-Ld for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 May 2021 13:31:22 -0400 Original-Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:50974) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lhbeb-0006No-QQ for 48337@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 May 2021 13:31:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1621013472; bh=C6Lj8Rml38auV8+4xoijX8A3E6yn/y6t5p/7XyDNTCo=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=QDPvBVG1hBpQE+QtoVCzdgNBgb4kCEE3Q+ha5uialwNrn43a2bOayFaN7UUaJjZHJ QtJrZ0k37qH+q0ZVUBK6G4mRRoJGQtJz0PTVQcvwjD/aY7flHsHOmZ4aKHEKic47Y7 6T0yHpUg/KqOdd7e9hruqHjvL/zyE5kbK7BNojZ0L+yADpOMtdVJSWVRmBMNrBJ3zH 6uGB9P6vWN+hDk4GoyFAZESnJJUn1g1HgjyyTBNbhwWWJ5bOvU8Orr8J7MdIIwGgzt 55s0WC4fudoUwO5LtE7VRMGd1k0WhbA9KwI6q4IWHPki6IKIKBRI6cJ8ZRnXHmfYEF s3mxJBTSq2a5g== In-Reply-To: <83r1i9xpvk.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:206544 Archived-At: >> As I said to Eli a week ago or so: "So far I haven't seen a single >> concrete example that demonstrates that this feature is either (a) >> necessary in some circumstances (as was bidirectional editing support), >> or (b) not necessary but at least useful in some circumstances." Does >> anyone have such a concrete example? I'm all ears. >> >> It seems to me that the only benefit of this feature is a slightly >> different minibuffer behavior, that some users may perhaps find more >> convenient, as would be, for example, the possibility to display the >> minibuffer at the top of the frames. Adding such a feature should not >> make Emacs 28 backward-incompatible in any way. >> >> This experiment started in a bad way: its purpose was to fix a supposed >> bug, which, as it turned out, was not a bug at all, but the result of a >> misunderstanding, namely that isearch uses the echo area and not the >> minibuffer. From then on, more and more changes were added to Emacs. > > We are a diverse group of people with different interests in Emacs > development, each one scratching the itches that we have, which aren't > necessarily itches for others. We should therefore all of us respect > the interests and motivations of others, even if they scratch itches > that don't look like itches to us. > > In this case, you have repeatedly stated your opposition to this change, > and nothing positive can be expected from expressing that opposition one > more time. Can you please calm down and let Alan fix whatever breakage > he caused? > I'm very calm. Indeed I opposed this change, from day one, as much as, and with the same energy as you opposed the change of the TAB key in xref in bug#44611 for example. I will continue to do so until someone explains why this change is a "significant improvement" as you said, so significant that it's suddenly okay to introduce backward-incompatible changes in a central UI element of Emacs. IOW, the "something positive" that can be expected from that opposition is an answer to that question.