From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#55163: 29.0.50; master 4a1f69ebca (TICKS . HZ) for current-time broke lsp-mode Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 08:00:05 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <3bcf4527-426a-b3ae-317a-a9a0e521fc6a@cs.ucla.edu> References: <87sfpxxyvb.fsf@3-191.divsi.unimi.it> <87zgk5jtm6.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80kj2q1.fsf@gnus.org> <878rroi5a8.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zo9n3o.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1zof944.fsf@gnus.org> <83wnf89mcj.fsf@gnu.org> <0a39a220-6298-8ed4-87bd-414702cd9b57@cs.ucla.edu> <83ee1facp0.fsf@gnu.org> <87tuab543p.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmky99hm.fsf@gnu.org> <56e6d32c-7583-dbd9-85ee-e43d32a6feb1@cs.ucla.edu> <83mtg17qxs.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18694"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.8.1 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, v.pupillo@gmail.com, 55163@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 01 17:01:10 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nlB4Q-0004m9-ED for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 17:01:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53856 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlB4P-0000Pc-Cs for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 11:01:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44242) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlB4I-0000PT-ON for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 11:01:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:40042) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlB4I-0001fu-Ei for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 11:01:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlB4I-0003cI-Cz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 11:01:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 15:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55163 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 55163-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55163.165141721410804 (code B ref 55163); Sun, 01 May 2022 15:01:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 55163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 15:00:14 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33939 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlB3W-0002nm-8b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 11:00:14 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:43806) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlB3U-0002fp-Nh for 55163@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 11:00:13 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C671600B3; Sun, 1 May 2022 08:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id EPVnKYUEkv3r; Sun, 1 May 2022 08:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129EB1600D1; Sun, 1 May 2022 08:00:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id LpIuTt49seLz; Sun, 1 May 2022 08:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D32041600B3; Sun, 1 May 2022 08:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <83mtg17qxs.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:231158 Archived-At: On 4/30/22 22:38, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> it's common for Emacs to compare the timestamp of a file at >> time T1 with the timestamp of another (or the same) file at a later >> time T2. > Please show at least 3 examples of such "common" situations. I think > it is rather UN-common. auth-source-netrc-parse, semanticdb-synchronize, and dir-locals-find-file. > what's the problem to describe and support a primitive that > returns a sorted list of files? What happens with ties in the timestamps - do we sort stably? What happens with files named but not present? What if we want to sort by ctime instead of by mtime? What if the user is involved in selecting files as we go? How do we specify the files: a list of strings, a pattern, or something else? What if we want to look at a tree of files? Etc. Of course one could come up with answers to those questions, but this sort of thing is much better handled in Lisp code than as a C-language primitive. > I challenge you to present even half a dozen of such uses. I listed three examples above. Here are three more, which makes six: multisession-backend-value, eshell-read-passwd, nneething-create-mapping. More examples can easily be supplied. >> There are also cases where the code now uses current-time and assumes >> that the resulting timestamps are issued in numeric order, an assumption >> that is not always true in practice. > > That's a separate issue, and again: please present the use cases for > that which are relevant to Emacs applications. erc-server-send-ping, progress-reporter-do-update, timer-event-handler. I'm sure there are others. Your point is well taken that if we made changes along the lines being discussed, we shouldn't merely add the new primitives: we should *use* them. And if we can't find significant use for them then we shouldn't add them.