From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#25627: 25.1; `help-make-xrefs' loads `cl-extra.el' now Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 15:00:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3abd0b72-e875-4c07-bdc2-4aa62de2c55e@default> References: <82c8d359-fd05-4bff-9dba-29d2738d435d@default> <87d1euolzv.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <5f457952-82ca-4a77-8061-1b2e366fcfb2@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1486508474 1759 195.159.176.226 (7 Feb 2017 23:01:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 23:01:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 25627@debbugs.gnu.org To: Philipp Stephani , npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 08 00:01:10 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cbEl1-00008Z-BV for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Feb 2017 00:01:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56797 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cbEl7-0000xj-0l for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 18:01:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40290) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cbEl1-0000x5-NG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 18:01:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cbEkw-000167-SP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 18:01:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:32953) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cbEkw-000163-P3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 18:01:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cbEkw-0005sD-Ee for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 18:01:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2017 23:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25627 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 25627-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25627.148650845722559 (code B ref 25627); Tue, 07 Feb 2017 23:01:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 25627) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2017 23:00:57 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59385 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cbEkr-0005rm-17 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 18:00:57 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:37601) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cbEkp-0005rW-84 for 25627@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 18:00:55 -0500 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v17N0mpG014447 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Feb 2017 23:00:48 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v17N0mbs006922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Feb 2017 23:00:48 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v17N0lRr021724; Tue, 7 Feb 2017 23:00:47 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:129106 Archived-At: >> > > I thought that the point of creating `cl-lib.el' was to give people = a >> > > library of the most-used CL constructs and still let them avoid load= ing >> > > all of `cl.el'.=C2=A0 If we are, in effect, loading `cl-extra.el' no= w nearly >> > > by default then what's the point of separating out `cl-lib.el'? >> > >> > AFAIK, the point of cl-lib is to have the CL constructs in a separate >> > namespace, so that loading cl-lib doesn't change the semantics of >> > existing code that might not expect it (unlike cl.el). >> >> What part of `cl.el' changes the semantics of existing [non-cl.el] >> code? > > Loading cl.el modifies the observable behavior of dolist. Yes, such is legacy. See what I wrote about needing to fix such problems (name clashes). The fact that plain Emacs `dolist' is massaged to make it DTRT for cl.el under that same name is wrong. And then cl-macs.el leverages that advice for `cl-dolist'. The Emacs emulation of Common-Lisp `dolist' should be called (only) `cl-dolist' - or else the Emacs thing by that name should be renamed to something else. Emacs has generally opted to co-opt some names for its own version of a behavior, instead of giving the Emacs version a different name. Because of that we should not allow a Common-Lisp emulation of such a thing use the same name. It should use the `cl-' prefix, since the unprefixed name is already taken. Aliasing (or doing something that has the same effect, as for `dolist') the plain name to the name with prefix `cl-' is the wrong thing to do, in such cases. We should alias to remove prefix `cl-' only when the result is not a name clash. But again, this bug report is about unnecessarily autoloading `cl-extra.el'. It is not about `cl.el'.