bug#12922: 24.3.50; `make-pointer-invisible' don't seem to work

bug#12922: 24.3.50; `make-pointer-invisible' don't seem to work

[Dani Moncayo]

Hi,

(Maybe I'm missing something, but I fail to see what)

I've read this paragraph in (info "(emacs) Display Custom"):

     If the mouse pointer lies inside an Emacs frame, Emacs makes it
  invisible each time you type a character to insert text, to prevent it
  from obscuring the text.  (To be precise, the hiding occurs when you
  type a "self-inserting" character.  *Note Inserting Text::.)  Moving
  the mouse pointer makes it visible again.  To disable this feature, set
  the variable `make-pointer-invisible' to `nil'.

When I try to test that feature, the mouse pointer never hides.  It
only changes between the arrow (when the pointer is over an empty
area) and the "I-beam" (when the pointer is over some text).

I've tested this with Emacs -Q, with the current trunk, with the
current emacs-24 branch, and with the 24.2, 24.1 and 23.4 releases.
In all cases the behavior is the same (mouse pointer remains visible
after typing text).


In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.1.7601)
 of 2012-11-18 on MS-W7-DANI
Bzr revision: 110940 cyd@gnu.org-20121118053813-ijg6257029399jtu
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
 `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags
 -Ic:/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.10/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.10/src
 -Ic:/emacs/libs/libpng-1.2.37-lib/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/zlib-1.2.5
 -Ic:/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1-lib/include
 -Ic:/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4-lib/include
 -Ic:/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1-lib/include
 -Ic:/emacs/libs/libxml2-2.7.8-w32-bin/include/libxml2
 -Ic:/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9-w32-bin/include
 -Ic:/emacs/libs/libiconv-1.9.2-1-lib/include'

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: ENU
  locale-coding-system: cp1252
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t


-- 
Dani Moncayo

bug#12922: 24.3.50; `make-pointer-invisible' don't seem to work

[Eli Zaretskii]

severity 12922 wishlist
stop

> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:36:38 +0100
> From: Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@gmail.com>
> 
> I've read this paragraph in (info "(emacs) Display Custom"):
> 
>      If the mouse pointer lies inside an Emacs frame, Emacs makes it
>   invisible each time you type a character to insert text, to prevent it
>   from obscuring the text.  (To be precise, the hiding occurs when you
>   type a "self-inserting" character.  *Note Inserting Text::.)  Moving
>   the mouse pointer makes it visible again.  To disable this feature, set
>   the variable `make-pointer-invisible' to `nil'.
> 
> When I try to test that feature, the mouse pointer never hides.  It
> only changes between the arrow (when the pointer is over an empty
> area) and the "I-beam" (when the pointer is over some text).
> 
> I've tested this with Emacs -Q, with the current trunk, with the
> current emacs-24 branch, and with the 24.2, 24.1 and 23.4 releases.
> In all cases the behavior is the same (mouse pointer remains visible
> after typing text).

This feature is not currently supported on MS-Windows.  I marked this
"wishlist"; patches are welcome.

bug#12922: 24.3.50; `make-pointer-invisible' don't seem to work

[Dani Moncayo]

> This feature is not currently supported on MS-Windows.  I marked this
> "wishlist"; patches are welcome.

Ok.

I suggest putting this clarification in the documentation (docstring
and manual) while this feature is not available on MS-Windows.

-- 
Dani Moncayo

bug#12922: 24.3.50; `make-pointer-invisible' don't seem to work

[Drew Adams]

> > This feature is not currently supported on MS-Windows.  I 
> > marked this "wishlist"; patches are welcome.
> 
> I suggest putting this clarification in the documentation (docstring
> and manual) while this feature is not available on MS-Windows.

+1

There are also other things regarding the mouse pointer that are not supported
on Windows.  They too should should be pointed out.  I have seen more than one
user try to change the pointer attributes in vain.

bug#12922: 24.3.50; `make-pointer-invisible' don't seem to work

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> Cc: <12922@debbugs.gnu.org>
> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 07:54:35 -0800
> 
> > > This feature is not currently supported on MS-Windows.  I 
> > > marked this "wishlist"; patches are welcome.
> > 
> > I suggest putting this clarification in the documentation (docstring
> > and manual) while this feature is not available on MS-Windows.
> 
> +1

We don't normally do that in the manuals, but feel free to suggest
changes, perhaps Stefan or Chong will accept them.

bug#12922: 24.3.50; `make-pointer-invisible' don't seem to work

[Dani Moncayo]

>> > > This feature is not currently supported on MS-Windows.  I
>> > > marked this "wishlist"; patches are welcome.
>> >
>> > I suggest putting this clarification in the documentation (docstring
>> > and manual) while this feature is not available on MS-Windows.
>>
>> +1
>
> We don't normally do that in the manuals, but feel free to suggest
> changes, perhaps Stefan or Chong will accept them.

Not sure about the docstrings, but the Emacs Manual has many
references to MS-Windows, explaining things specific to that platform,
which obviously is TRT, as that is a supported platform.

The very reason for filing this bug report was that I read about a
feature that didn't work for me.  If the documentation had been
accurate, I wouldn't have had to send this bug report.

IOW, this is a documentation bug.  So, why not fixing it?

-- 
Dani Moncayo

bug#12922: 24.3.50; `make-pointer-invisible' don't seem to work

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:39:44 +0100
> From: Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@gmail.com>
> Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>, 12922@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> >> > > This feature is not currently supported on MS-Windows.  I
> >> > > marked this "wishlist"; patches are welcome.
> >> >
> >> > I suggest putting this clarification in the documentation (docstring
> >> > and manual) while this feature is not available on MS-Windows.
> >>
> >> +1
> >
> > We don't normally do that in the manuals, but feel free to suggest
> > changes, perhaps Stefan or Chong will accept them.
> 
> Not sure about the docstrings, but the Emacs Manual has many
> references to MS-Windows, explaining things specific to that platform,
> which obviously is TRT, as that is a supported platform.

No, I meant we don't normally say in the manual "this and that feature
is not (yet) implemented on this and that platform."  Especially if
that platform is Windows.


> The very reason for filing this bug report was that I read about a
> feature that didn't work for me.  If the documentation had been
> accurate, I wouldn't have had to send this bug report.
> 
> IOW, this is a documentation bug.  So, why not fixing it?

Because it's not a documentation bug.  It's a feature that's missing
on one particular platform.

bug#12922: 24.3.50; `make-pointer-invisible' don't seem to work

[Dani Moncayo]

>> > We don't normally do that in the manuals, but feel free to suggest
>> > changes, perhaps Stefan or Chong will accept them.
>>
>> Not sure about the docstrings, but the Emacs Manual has many
>> references to MS-Windows, explaining things specific to that platform,
>> which obviously is TRT, as that is a supported platform.
>
> No, I meant we don't normally say in the manual "this and that feature
> is not (yet) implemented on this and that platform."  Especially if
> that platform is Windows.

I don't see the point of not doing that.

>> The very reason for filing this bug report was that I read about a
>> feature that didn't work for me.  If the documentation had been
>> accurate, I wouldn't have had to send this bug report.
>>
>> IOW, this is a documentation bug.  So, why not fixing it?
>
> Because it's not a documentation bug.  It's a feature that's missing
> on one particular platform.

To me, a documentation bug is a bug in the documentation, i.e., the
program's behavior is the intended one, but the documentation doesn't
describes that behavior.  And that is what happens here.

Definitions aside, the fact is that currently, any user of the
MS-Windows port of Emacs will be confused when she reads about the
`make-pointer-invisible' variable and notice that the actual behavior
of the program does not match the documentation.

-- 
Dani Moncayo

bug#12922: 24.3.50; `make-pointer-invisible' don't seem to work

[Drew Adams]

> a bug in the documentation, i.e., the program's behavior is
> the intended one, but the documentation doesn't
> describes that behavior.  And that is what happens here.
> 
> Definitions aside, the fact is that currently, any user of the
> MS-Windows port of Emacs will be confused when she reads about the
> `make-pointer-invisible' variable and notice that the actual behavior
> of the program does not match the documentation.

If it is not possible to update the doc wrt specific platforms here and there,
describing specific limitations per platform, perhaps it would at least be
possible in some cases (like this one) to state that the feature (whatever it is
- making the pointer invisible, for instance) "might not be available on some
platforms".

That would at least give readers a heads-up, so they do not completely wonder
what's going on and whether (a) there is perhaps a product bug or (b) they are
perhaps misreading the doc.

Yes, such a weak caveat is true for nearly all features.  But this is not
something black-and-white, all-or-nothing.

If such caveats are used judiciously, i.e., only in places where we in fact do
not support a feature on some platform (especially a commonly used platform) and
where we realize there might well be a chance for reader confusion, then I, for
one, think they could be helpful. 

bug#12922: 24.3.50; `make-pointer-invisible' don't seem to work

[martin rudalics]

Version: 25.1

> I've read this paragraph in (info "(emacs) Display Custom"):
>
>       If the mouse pointer lies inside an Emacs frame, Emacs makes it
>    invisible each time you type a character to insert text, to prevent it
>    from obscuring the text.  (To be precise, the hiding occurs when you
>    type a "self-inserting" character.  *Note Inserting Text::.)  Moving
>    the mouse pointer makes it visible again.  To disable this feature, set
>    the variable `make-pointer-invisible' to `nil'.
>
> When I try to test that feature, the mouse pointer never hides.  It
> only changes between the arrow (when the pointer is over an empty
> area) and the "I-beam" (when the pointer is over some text).
>
> I've tested this with Emacs -Q, with the current trunk, with the
> current emacs-24 branch, and with the 24.2, 24.1 and 23.4 releases.
> In all cases the behavior is the same (mouse pointer remains visible
> after typing text).
>
>
> In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.1.7601)
>   of 2012-11-18 on MS-W7-DANI

This should work with Emacs 25.1.  Bug closed.

Thanks, martin