From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#24540: 25.1; doc of `abbrev-expand-function(s)', "wrapper hooks",... Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 07:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39d1a887-a19f-40ba-9b00-84e27f2606ce@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1474815276 8352 195.159.176.226 (25 Sep 2016 14:54:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:54:36 +0000 (UTC) To: 24540@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 25 16:54:29 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1boAon-00086R-Fq for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 16:54:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39241 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1boAol-0001kC-V0 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:54:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34131) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1boAof-0001il-LA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:54:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1boAoc-0001vD-F8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:54:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:57726) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1boAoc-0001v9-Bi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:54:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1boAoc-0002iq-56 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:54:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 24540 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.147481523010444 (code B ref -1); Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:54:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2016 14:53:50 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35683 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1boAoP-0002iO-MG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:53:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:43113) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1boAoN-0002i8-Le for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:53:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1boAoH-0001sA-BT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:53:42 -0400 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:48060) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1boAoH-0001rs-8K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:53:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34067) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1boAoE-0001UJ-Ax for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:53:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1boAoA-0001rF-5n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:53:37 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:21078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1boAo9-0001qw-TW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:53:34 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8PErVYs023050 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:53:31 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u8PErU13004420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:53:31 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u8PErUhG006431 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:53:30 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:123678 Archived-At: Let's check the doc, starting with `expand-abbrev': "Calls `abbrev-expand-function' with no argument to do the work, and returns whatever it does." (It should say that it calls the _value of variable_ `abbrev-expand-function'.) So we look at `abbrev-expand-function', which tells us that the default value is `abbrev--default-expand'. (Why the default value of such a presumably user-modifiable variable should be considered an "internal" function is a mystery.) So we look at `abbrev--default-expand', which tells us this: "This respects the wrapper hook `abbrev-expand-functions'." Hm. So we look at `abbrev-expand-functions', to see what this "wrapper hook" is all about. It tells us this: "Wrapper hook around =E2=80=98abbrev--default-expand=E2=80=99." OK. It's a "wrapper hook", whatever that is. This doesn't tell us anything more. But `C-h v abbrev-expand-functions' also tells us this, which is interesting: "This variable is obsolete since 24.4; use =E2=80=98abbrev-expand-function= =E2=80=99 instead." So the doc tells us about a "wrapper hook", which is presumably something like a hook, which is something that users can use. But the wrapper hook we are pointed to is "obsolete", and we are told to instead use a different variable (sans "s") - which was the one we started with! Round and round we go... Now what about the mysterious term "wrapper hook", apparently introduced fairly recently? Searching for it in the Emacs manual shows nothing. Searching for it in the Elisp manual shows only mentions of particular "obsolete" wrapper hooks - no explanation of what is meant by a "wrapper hook". It looks as though a new term ("wrapper hook") was introduced to the Emacs vocabulary in Emacs 23, and then removed (deprecated?) soon thereafter. What is this all about? What is a poor user to understand about all of this? One could forgive a user for being confused, or totally lost, in this swamp. Please consider clearing away some of the brambles. In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2016-09-17 built on LAPHROAIG Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: 'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install CFLAGS=3D-static' Let's check the doc, starting with `expand-abbrev': "Calls `abbrev-expand-function' with no argument to do the work, and returns whatever it does." So we look at `abbrev-expand-function', which tells us that the default value is `abbrev--default-expand'. (Why the default value of such a user-modifiable variable should be considered an "internal" function is a mystery.) So we look at `abbrev--default-expand', which tells us this: "This respects the wrapper hook `abbrev-expand-functions'." Hm. So we look at `abbrev-expand-functions', to see what this "wrapper hook" is all about. It tells us this: "Wrapper hook around =E2=80=98abbrev--default-expand=E2=80=99." OK. It's a "wrapper hook", whatever that is. This doesn't tell us anything more. But `C-h v abbrev--default-expand' also tells us this, which is interesting: "This variable is obsolete since 24.4; use =E2=80=98abbrev-expand-function= =E2=80=99 instead." So the doc tells us about a "wrapper hook", which is presumably something like a hook, which is something that users can use. But the wrapper hook we are pointed to is "obsolete", and we are told to instead use a different variable (sans "s") - which was the one we started with! Round and round we go. So what about the mysterious term "wrapper hook", apparently introduced fairly recently? Searching for it in the Emacs manual shows nothing. Searching for it in the Elisp manual shows only mentions of particular "obsolete" wrapper hooks - no explanation of what is meant by a "wrapper hook". It looks as though a new term ("wrapper hook") was introduced to the Emacs vocabulary recently, and then removed (deprecated?) almost immediately. What is this all about? What is a poor user to understand about all of this? One could forgive a user for being confused, or totally lost, in this swamp. In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2016-09-17 built on LAPHROAIG Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: 'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install CFLAGS=3D-static' So we look at `abbrev-expand-function', which tells us that the default value is `abbrev--default-expand'. (Why the default value of such a user-modifiable variable should be considered an "internal" function is a mystery.) So we look at `abbrev--default-expand', which tells us this: "This respects the wrapper hook `abbrev-expand-functions'." Hm. So we look at `abbrev-expand-functions', to see what this "wrapper hook" is all about. It tells us this: "Wrapper hook around =E2=80=98abbrev--default-expand=E2=80=99." OK. It's a "wrapper hook", whatever that is. This doesn't tell us anything more. But `C-h v abbrev--default-expand' also tells us this, which is interesting: "This variable is obsolete since 24.4; use =E2=80=98abbrev-expand-function= =E2=80=99 instead." So the doc tells us about a "wrapper hook", which is presumably something like a hook, which is something that users can use. But the wrapper hook we are pointed to is "obsolete", and we are told to instead use a different variable (sans "s") - which was the one we started with! Round and round we go. So what about the mysterious term "wrapper hook", apparently introduced fairly recently? Searching for it in the Emacs manual shows nothing. Searching for it in the Elisp manual shows only mentions of particular "obsolete" wrapper hooks - no explanation of what is meant by a "wrapper hook". It looks as though a new term ("wrapper hook") was introduced to the Emacs vocabulary recently, and then removed (deprecated?) almost immediately. What is this all about? What is a poor user to understand about all of this? One could forgive a user for being confused, or totally lost, in this swamp. In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2016-09-17 built on LAPHROAIG Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: 'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install CFLAGS=3D-static'