From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 07:47:29 +0200 Message-ID: <33A4238A-C948-4A8E-BADB-689142143CED@gnu.org> References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0drz1jv.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34812"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jonas@bernoul.li, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org, Richard Stallman Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 21 06:48:18 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nM1YX-0008tH-OY for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Original-Received: from [2001:4df7:3:966f::1] (port=46250 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nM1Xq-0000qr-CL; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 00:47:35 -0500 In-Reply-To: Autocrypt: addr=eliz@gnu.org; keydata= mQENBF+pf4UBCAC6vjkWLSAsQpe8YIGKLQzNOJx/IjGtCdFF8uzmO5jmME+SD8ROuJN+t5KXVw58 uzu75EFD0vHTY9e+udJ2gkpuy0NnzkFcbumdLLo2ERKCoSctZZRhzKXI5z5cHxCqW0B2ygHRrRLt oNlGID7bAgcgSViT1ptGqTXO7zGVu4Airok7dNzcPtHgns8GlR5YAFX0TvE6oGd0l2VPghNeVJKJ OjrbfhoDxl3ucFpqbqMH8z9HTLDOFpz8UaYYUdJMi3xX6vwTZxI2sM2RRVLUpZyllAkSMI4lln1O OgazM/62DJUs/rKIHKBnF6h3/qsJUjUYXaAHbrXY26mWllAd536lABEBAAG0I0VsaSBaYXJldHNr aWkgKGVsaXopIDxlbGl6QGdudS5vcmc+iQE4BBMBAgAiBQJfqX+FAhsDBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsE FgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRCRwSYvAeuNOYUQB/4/iIKKOG45ijNaRoTvmJJZMvj1S07WQxEm7c5SHEeE QbLOAxB9vESOV7sLueuN3oqEndtzyYt4x1WTSBmHFF7h5fcCMjBs41siOIp5Sj/xD0Bvaa0IKGCR SZ7PAo8Mq3wgajXpTpn9vxE2PmtzA8KdEE0K1+f9pVAfOpUIcCl44rIxLUW352XG0y7iz6c/O6LB 1deOKMiKFctKO7pBti1dJEm1ImewLH3H8uTbwspLOs3EB8xhsESxmTidnze68HX2jt+2EeMgCdki NU+LWbexQZPfIS7+ZmE06ll0v6+Jy7ZdTkCCRypKWTnW7pIFsq/p4kybV8O/kHSV6B4vvQBfuQEN BF X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:227305 Archived-At: On February 21, 2022 6:34:39 AM GMT+02:00, Richard Stallman = wrote: >=20 > > The original sources for this manual are in Org, but the program tha= t > > produces Texinfo from the Org original has problems that need to be > > resolved before we can include the Org sources in the Emacs release > > tarball=2E The Org sources themselves also have several issues=2E >=20 > Thanks=2E Now I understand the problem=2E >=20 > > The current Texinfo sources in the repository were heavily edited to > > solve many problems in the original version converted from Org to > > Texinfo, and that is how we intend to distribute that in Emacs 28=2E= 1=2E >=20 > That's not a solution=2E It is IMNSHO a sufficient stopgap while we are working on a better solutio= n=2E It actually coincides with one of the alternatives for our course of = action that you describe below=2E > We must not do that=2E What could we do instead? >=20 > We could distribute this package without its manual=2E That would be a > practical problem, but not a disaster=2E It is a reasonable option=2E > But we have other options too=2E Here are some ideas=2E >=20 > * Delete Transient from the Emacs 28 release=2E People can get it from > the separately released Org mode=2E Transient is not just a manual, Transient is an Emacs Lisp package, which = is used in Emacs=2E Removing its manual is only acceptable to me if we als= o remove the package and all its uses=2E That sounds drastic and unnecessa= ry=2E > * Fork the manual, making a version for which the Texinfo form is the > real source that we edit=2E That version can be included in Emacs 28= =2E > This forkage would be a practical problem, but not a disaster=2E This is what we did, in effect=2E The Texinfo sources were heavily edited= , and diverged significantly from the results of conversion from Org=2E > * Write a converter to generate that manual's Org-format source from > the Texinfo form=2E Then the Texinfo form will be the real source > code, and we can include it both in Emacs and in the Org release=2E > This way, there will be no practical problem, only the inconvenience > of editing that manual in Texinfo rather than some other source > format=2E The converter exists, but has problems that need to be resolved before the= results could be acceptable=2E We hope this will be done in the future, a= nd will allow us to use the Org sources instead of Texinfo=2E > I suspect that automatically converting Org format to Texinfo format > gives bad Texinfo output=2E Texinfo has many different markup > constructs to make visual distinctions in the text=2E Consider @samp, > @code, @kbd, @dfn, @emph, @var=2E @file, @url, and more=2E >=20 > How does Org format express those distinctions? I fear the answer > is, "It doesn't=2E" I would be glad to find that that problem > has been fixed=2E Fof future releases, we indeed hope to see the problems of conversion from= Org resolved, and then we can switch to distributing the Org sources inste= ad of Texinfo=2E