From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#40671: [DOC] modify literal objects Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 10:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <329bbcc4-aaa7-4deb-a880-47a26e12aa26@default> References: <6cbe3c10-6d81-f2be-30d7-17096b3f3517@yandex.ru> <012e8bc3-df4b-3884-4e54-5fe7ef4248cb@cs.ucla.edu> <37a54ac2-da80-ca35-9c01-38c8e12a4b5f@yandex.ru> <9375aaeb-2a9a-b307-c793-0d99328201ea@yandex.ru> <7fe0574a-62ae-94fb-2e55-1a69de6ce828@cs.ucla.edu> <91857438-f44a-90f4-dfe2-a32224ba3994@yandex.ru> <880dc34b-46a9-0149-3c6e-0a951a70125d@cs.ucla.edu> <9c46b93e-a855-0be0-7ab0-50cb8c5cd74d@yandex.ru> <48e90f87-1519-9101-d54b-4bfd81a0c936@yandex.ru> <252d6368-ddea-2f41-b53f-cd927ebc3d1d@cs.ucla.edu> <43d93102-d361-f64b-971b-909418b89fca@yandex.ru> <2ca64f28-1255-4135-6e45-0f0e12b9e72d@cs.ucla.edu> <0c7570cb-bf52-a617-bf54-27a47c54e04a@cs.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; 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Tue, 05 May 2020 17:41:07 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 045HasqS092566; Tue, 5 May 2020 17:41:07 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30sjdtg8kr-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 05 May 2020 17:41:07 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 045Hf0Kp000881; Tue, 5 May 2020 17:41:00 GMT In-Reply-To: <0c7570cb-bf52-a617-bf54-27a47c54e04a@cs.ucla.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9612 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=18 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005050133 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9612 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=18 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005050133 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:179751 Archived-At: Apologies for chiming in here again. And I haven't read the proposed text or followed the thread recently. But I just saw "Dangerous Mutations". I really don't think that it's helpful or appropriate to speak of danger in the context of the gotcha we've been discussing. Danger is danger. Yes, with undefined behavior, and with possible modification of list structure etc., there is the possibility of loss of data, and that's not a good thing. Undefined is scary. But I'm not in favor of crying "DANGER" about such things. At all. Check the Common Lisp doc. You don't find such screaming warnings plastered throughout, whenever it comes to destructive modification. The word "destructive" is sufficiently strong. And in the case of the gotchas being discussed it's not necessarily even destructive modification. The unknown/undefined is just that. No need (and inappropriate) to wrap it DANGEROUS! Just one opinion.