From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#12908: 24.3.50; file `emacs_backtrace.txt'? Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:36:52 -0800 Message-ID: <2DF469FAADEF449EB3AD69FD92F43C57@us.oracle.com> References: <4B9EFDFEE27E43DBB6331605DD7C2842@us.oracle.com> <838va14blm.fsf@gnu.org> <5F469B1E1F824FA8B16159BB2E0DE869@us.oracle.com> <837gpl49t6.fsf@gnu.org> <263AC1B3AE7347CEAA88A5723B1C7A7F@us.oracle.com> <83zk2g3da1.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1353170246 20559 80.91.229.3 (17 Nov 2012 16:37:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:37:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 12908@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 17 17:37:36 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TZlOb-0004Wb-C5 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 17:37:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55376 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TZlOR-0000FI-CY for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 11:37:19 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44321) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TZlOL-00009M-0G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 11:37:16 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TZlOH-0005eG-U7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 11:37:12 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:40841) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TZlOH-0005eC-Qa for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 11:37:09 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TZlP8-0005VC-KX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 11:38:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12908 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 12908-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12908.135317028121138 (code B ref 12908); Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:38:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 12908) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2012 16:38:01 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51091 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TZlP6-0005Ut-Ul for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 11:38:01 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:42597) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TZlP1-0005UY-Qq for 12908@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 11:37:56 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qAHGb01c003851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:37:01 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qAHGaxG1005683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:37:00 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt120.oracle.com (abhmt120.oracle.com [141.146.116.72]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qAHGaxOt015693; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 10:36:59 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.226.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:36:59 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <83zk2g3da1.fsf@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac3ElEQUlZZPgoXxQiiPXgsBKlzVBwAS2e3w X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:67062 Archived-At: > > > > That does not seem very friendly (or useful) on the > > > > part of Emacs. > > > > > > There are gobs of programs writing to your disk right now, > > > without asking for your permission. What's so unfriendly > > > in Emacs doing the same? > > > > I don't have gobs of programs writing to arbitrary > > directories, especially directories with user files. > > AFAIK, I have NO programs doing that. > > Yes, you do. You just don't know that. If you are really interested, > you could try walking the process tree with Process Explorer and > looking at the files they have open and amount of I/O on those files. Let me put it this way, since I haven't been able to make it clear enough so far: I do not _se+_ files created in my user folders. If there are such files created, whether temporarily or permanently, I am unaware of it. Not so with emacs_backtrace.txt files. That is the point: the behavior that users witness - the user experience. I will not argue with you that there no such files are ever created by other programs. I will say that I don't see any such. Nothing about what other programs are doing is annoying in this respect. If you want to make Emacs not be annoying in the same way, please do. It is the user-level annoyance that this bug report is about. Users do not know or care about the implementation level at which you are examining the issue. Your answers do not address the issue, which is user annoyance at the _obvious_ creation of uninvited files in their folders. You may prove that I misunderstand this or that about what other programs do under the covers, but you are missing the point: what users see (and will be annoyed by). > > > Please submit another bug report, which is not Windows specific > > > and not about the documentation of this file. If the > > > general Emacs behavior changes, so will its behavior on Windows. > > > > Done (#12911). But it is you, not I, who chooses to > > characterizes this bug as being about only doc and only > > MS Windows. Please reread the subject line. > > The details of the same feature on Unix were already in NEWS and in > the manual, and emacs_backtrace.txt is a Windows-only file name (it > has different names on Unix, as documented in the manual). So I don't > see how your original report could have been interpreted in any other > way than I did. Even when the OP informs you that your interpretation is wrong (too limited)? Anyway, there is now another bug for the annoyance, and thank you for documenting the annoyance. I have no problem with splitting the bug report that way.