From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: martin rudalics Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9054: 24.0.50; show source in other window Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:21:23 +0200 Message-ID: <23460cdb-c773-4e60-2770-8aa75e0d5693@gmx.at> References: <87k4bovfd0.fsf@sophokles.streitblatt.de> <87eea09rwg.fsf@gnus.org> <878s05wxx8.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tuisras8.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee9wh4kh.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <82a9592e-b05a-399c-419e-fcbb3e829b35@gmx.at> <87czpfymhj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <44514af3-09b8-8b6b-c436-cfc5f899142a@gmx.at> <87fsu8pdcp.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87lf40nwol.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <875122a9-0ff9-4479-97dc-3860466a2b11@gmx.at> <871r5px383.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87y27vk6pd.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <878rzv8obc.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <76b6ea1e-1256-2205-b6df-cde10330da53@gmx.at> <87czp4lg3p.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16746"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 9054@debbugs.gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 20 10:28:22 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mSEez-00044Q-8t for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:28:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35816 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mSEey-0004zU-Ak for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 04:28:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51260) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mSEYr-0000as-Vq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 04:22:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:57642) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mSEYr-0005PG-ON for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 04:22:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mSEYr-00006H-KZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 04:22:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: martin rudalics Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9054 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo Original-Received: via spool by 9054-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9054.1632126099342 (code B ref 9054); Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:22:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9054) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2021 08:21:39 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40952 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mSEYV-00005S-3z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 04:21:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:53271) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mSEYP-000055-AA for 9054@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 04:21:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1632126085; bh=g1mVxTlX1PKmmcxeHLbldxBe29ujyFxLdVFcOCqMSb0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=CBC3wbRYvoxRQ2DugLfuvJnqwRYX5XpUteMRqWXfSN4/RTDcJBKDV1hpY0H4NhDOc U61L3C+Ueo8o2pPtidZ2xvkY29zROwYbZQp6SpAEMki/8k7XlpZHp2r8FvvO4If1wF aYRFYB2LiL1PNLOLr2nuVJH395RpcKO1N/A//RlQ= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [192.168.1.101] ([213.142.96.147]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MhU5R-1n6oVC2xmN-00edO7; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:21:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87czp4lg3p.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:8z79NDOu8B0s+Fa9I8Pykm0aEfofykkxUcHOSolf9IrycgDHcPL dKOueFDMvKdE6wYnVvSQxaMDsDXrQGu7wzNCZnbBfEO6B595KrI58QJtgeDxmRevrhAMbai N8bp9GXYFg6jZpXtPzNpD6CFL74noXD60HG9JqNi5LmDjIOo/HuRx2HYzNxfmbLbUMV8Shi flO0pDq/JG/bfSpzMLWbg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:m8K9mFF5dAg=:EmDWDFxnIvz7upNLvmuhPw zBYVLykzedgzZ8yq6mGs2nSnP35cduAey8MXgfLbM1+ZFNhfrbIopvGaSDoaNGZ+2xuvEbG+Z By5UjsJgKs25wLKzIcjKFElIUSSzmgGrQvwrW1v0eXF5jWdh2wbtCCOl7rKwTMk4/wnsCcp3J 9AvanqaFOrPPBujLw8KcIho0SZCtDn7WEo/g6gs19vpsVOsBONSWtxDojqW0+behp1UTc+ImA 06RIM+0peYYw7SjPS+o5SEu4RRGURFs7LYrzGtcsBGqxv0UjwziZTp7FioREGJMd+yBs8AFCo Z6QwlU4GQEILEvdnlfvyR7FxiKo84bNywcB11LUX9OzvXXfz0cIFqZmlrbHpWSDlN68bPElvp aDzjJWli/GpK3NiemVnB/kpl0loygCBiXnDeap3i9FmgnXF5L0bhEoqRfGT0jbrPCb0x9IGD0 kKs17aTpcjLGxsKjC/7qyTC7HBaQzZpEEdbfoFqW89hSNS7qrECd10U+qPDIbHahnUh5nOSkv 3Ne+GufJAxNJS9QEORQfDEjbSkjWrfjUqssxo4C4DSOLYAt5DcswenysODKTPWEU6KXoI41IX apF+u6XVkUfB7u7qy1CX+akqume94AoAK/tKH2SkHSustlaC0f36rOgeafqBugrD0bdifWjeV cjvHb5zypfFvM3xZoPC0BLZJbLoCC5shidIxIi2+0v/yjj0EkEppzUsftmhHm9yj5243zyc/c otqYRPDkJhSvq+NYku4zt0jMlG1GPwpxjQXG8vK+U0rI1gJqWz8+kffVzAytkqhrYO7qWSsN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:214847 Archived-At: >> Describe `setq' >> Lookup `setq' in Manuals >> Show Definition of `setq' >> Show References for `setq' > > But what to do with long symbols? For example, this won't fit to any = menu: > > Describe `display-fill-column-indicator-character' > Lookup `display-fill-column-indicator-character' in Manuals > Show Definition of `display-fill-column-indicator-character' > Show References for `display-fill-column-indicator-character' We could abbreviate such monsters in the menu entry and show the full identifier in the tooltip of the menu entry. > There is the menu =E2=80=9CDescribe=E2=80=9D in the submenu =E2=80=9CH= elp=E2=80=9D on the manu-bar, > but I don't see =E2=80=9CDescribe Character=E2=80=9D in it. Describe Character makes most sense when the user "is right at that character". I think - the menu at the top of a frame is suited for describing and helping with general things (and I think it does that pretty well already), - the mode line is suitable for describing things around its window and the buffer it displays (but it's not very good at that yet), - the buffer context menu is best suited for describing things around the position of the mouse (and we didn't have any of these until you started implementing it). Keybindings (if applicable in this context, like C-h f) should be tied to the position of the selected window's buffer or the nearest suitable object near that position. Thus I'd say that "Select All" has no place in the "Context Menu" but I'm not very sure where to put it instead: Maybe in a sub-menu where we offer to select symbol, s-expression, containing function and the entire buffer around the mouse position. Then we could also add a search sub-menu that would allow to search for the symbol near the mouse cursor. But the place where "Select All" should really go to is the mode line. > But there are other > Describe menu items. > >> Clicking on "x" OTOH should reveal that the Lisp reader doesn't know >> (yet) about "x" while clicking on "3" should reveal that the Lisp rea= der >> considers it an integer. > > I don't know what to show for an integer. We could just say that 3 is an integer. Clicking on any character that is neither a symbol nor a constant should primarily offer "describe character" which IMO is a very instructive tool users should get familiar with early. I think the context menu is the right place for that although the *Help* buffer should say on the _first_ line "what it describes" - namely a character. >> BTW: Show/Hide in the Options menu should allow to toggle context men= u >> mode. > > Maybe in the next version context menu mode will be enabled by default= =2E Then we need an entry that allows to toggle it off. martin