From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#17558: 24.4.50; global-subword-mode breaks ERC Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 16:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <215222bf-164d-4547-af43-8d24b488c80d@default> References: <87ppj4ette.fsf@secretsauce.net> <537FB4C8.3080809@dancol.org> <87a924mbuk.fsf@secretsauce.net> <8rvbghcp9y.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <553EB8A7.7070103@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1430177126 7634 80.91.229.3 (27 Apr 2015 23:25:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 23:25:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Dima Kogan , 17558@debbugs.gnu.org To: Daniel Colascione , Glenn Morris , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 28 01:25:11 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YmsOl-00069u-3W for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 01:25:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58076 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YmsOk-0001HU-GG for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:25:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50870) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YmsOg-0001Ef-JF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:25:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YmsOd-0003J2-AR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:25:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:51979) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YmsOd-0003Il-6o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:25:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YmsOc-00083A-Uw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:25:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 23:25:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17558 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 17558-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17558.143017706530889 (code B ref 17558); Mon, 27 Apr 2015 23:25:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 17558) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2015 23:24:25 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41755 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YmsO1-000828-2J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:24:25 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:24960) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YmsNz-00081u-AC for 17558@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:24:24 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t3RNOAjS015618 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Apr 2015 23:24:10 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t3RNO83W016074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Apr 2015 23:24:08 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t3RNO7BP017494; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 23:24:07 GMT In-Reply-To: <553EB8A7.7070103@dancol.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:102137 Archived-At: > >> Indeed, with the new implementation of subword-mode, most of the > >> word-operating commands should be marked as "interactive use > >> only", since their behavior is too unreliable for use in Lisp code. > > > > Sounds to me like it will be a PITA to review/replace every > > non-interactive usage of those commands. > > Are people certain they want to go down this road? >=20 > I am. It's the only way we can make sure that interactive commands > that move by words *indirectly* do the right thing in the presence of > user customizations. Mille excuses - I have not been following this thread. Just what is meant by "non-interactive use of `forward-word' and `backward-word'"? Any call to either of them in Lisp code? And what is meant by "*indirectly*". Will you be telling users (e.g. in NEWS) precisely *how* they need to modify existing non-interactive calls to those functions? Saying that they should be used only interactively from now on does not tell users how to fix existing code that calls them. And just what is unsafe about calling these two functions from Lisp? Sorry, but this is not clear to me. (And why not create new functions/commands, instead of changing the meaning/behavior of these longstanding ones?) > > (At time of writing, I don't see any mention of forward-word etc > > no longer being safe in NEWS.) >=20 > ERC is the only component I've heard of breaking. I don't think > forward-word has *ever* been "safe" in the sense that you're > suggesting. Modes almost always *actually* want sexp movement.