From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: jxa127@verizon.net Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#12787: Re: bug#12787: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:24:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <21114509.1510043.1351887876834.JavaMail.root@vms170027> References: <8698659.1494633.1351877357323.JavaMail.root@vms170027> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1351887917 22115 80.91.229.3 (2 Nov 2012 20:25:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 20:25:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org To: eliz@gnu.org, jxa127@verizon.net Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 02 21:25:26 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNnx-0003zl-D1 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 21:25:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33501 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNno-0005tv-Qv for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:25:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58565) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNnl-0005tl-LI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:25:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNnk-0006T3-AN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:25:13 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:35850) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNnk-0006Sz-6l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:25:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNqU-0008U0-0J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:28:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <8698659.1494633.1351877357323.JavaMail.root@vms170027> Resent-From: jxa127@verizon.net Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 20:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12787 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 12787-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12787.135188806532586 (code B ref 12787); Fri, 02 Nov 2012 20:28:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 20:27:45 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46101 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNqD-0008TX-84 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:27:45 -0400 Original-Received: from vms173011pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.11]:49200) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNqB-0008TO-LQ for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:27:44 -0400 Original-Received: from vms170027pub.verizon.net ([unknown] [192.168.1.3]) by vms173011.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0MCV00GCTND0U5B0@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:24:37 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from 63.66.64.247 ([63.66.64.247]) by vms170027 (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:24:36 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: Verizon Webmail X-Originating-IP: [63.66.64.247] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:66361 Archived-At: On 11/02/12, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:15:00 -0500 (CDT) >> From: jxa127@verizon.net >> Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> On 11/02/12, Glenn Morris wrote: >> > >jxa127@verizon.net wrote: > > > >> I save tool-bar.el, compile it to tool-bar.elc and then restart Emacs, > >> but the buttons are not there. > > > >This file is dumped into the Emacs executable, so you would need to > >rebuild Emacs with your changes. I imagine it would be much simpler to > >just add the buttons in your init file. I don't use the tool-bar and > >have no real opinion on what buttons should be there; but "Help" seems > >too general, rarely used, and hence a waste of space to me. Same with > >"save as" I guess. >> >> I see your point, however the fact remains that this is a regression from Emacs 23 -- and a seemingly arbitrary one at that -- that wasn't mentioned in the NEWS. > >What is a regression? tool-bar.el was always preloaded and dumped >into the Emacs executable. There's no change here. You have to go back to the original message. The regression is the loss of those two buttons from the tool bar. >> I get that "real" Emacs users don't use the tool bar (or the menu bar, for that matter), but I've been using >>Emacs extensively for seven years now and still find uses for the tool-bar. "Save As" is for me exceptionally useful. > >Well, those "real" users are those who decided to code the tool bar >and the menu bar, and to have it by default in Emacs. So I think this >is misdirected. I'm sorry, but I don't get your statement. I'm fully aware of who is making the decisions, and I'm corresponding with them right now. A few years ago, when I posted about a bug in Emacs 23 on the menu bar, I got a response that started the same way, "I don't use the menu bar, but ..." In that instance, the problem was resolved. I had hoped for the same consideration this time. In short, if you don't use the tool bar, then why not take input from somebody who does? If this question _should_ not be directed to those who make this decision, then to whom should I direct it? Thank you for your consideration, -Drew Ames