From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Gildea Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#32931: time-stamp-format: offer numeric time zones too Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 16:09:37 -0800 Message-ID: <2074.1573258177@tigger3.sg.gildea.net> References: <87zhvvwatd.fsf@jidanni.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="161557"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, 32931@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 09 01:10:11 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iTEKQ-000fqu-Aq for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 01:10:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33504 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iTEKO-00071Z-Qs for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 19:10:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50182) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iTEKJ-00071Q-4v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 19:10:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iTEKI-0000CO-4q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 19:10:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:39161) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iTEKI-0000CG-1e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 19:10:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iTEKH-0001GJ-Qh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 19:10:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stephen Gildea Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 00:10:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 32931 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 32931-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B32931.15732581854823 (code B ref 32931); Sat, 09 Nov 2019 00:10:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 32931) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Nov 2019 00:09:45 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47982 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iTEK0-0001Fj-UM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 19:09:45 -0500 Original-Received: from tigger.sg.gildea.net ([99.65.78.170]:46296 helo=tigger3.sg.gildea.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iTEJz-0001FW-Dz for 32931@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 19:09:44 -0500 Original-Received: from tigger3.sg.gildea.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by tigger3.sg.gildea.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 258EF3E12A2; Fri, 8 Nov 2019 16:09:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Message from eliz@gnu.org of 7 Nov 2019 23:04:56 +0200 <83d0e3e6tj.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7.1-RC3; GNU Emacs 25.2.2 Content-ID: <2071.1573258177.1@tigger3.sg.gildea.net> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:171292 Archived-At: Eli, I would like to introduce this feature to time-stamp the same way I have introduced other features: implement first, document later. Implement in this release, document in a later release. For example, the conversion "%q" (unqualified hostname) will be new in Emacs 27. It is newly described in the doc string of time-stamp-format. It is mentioned in 27.1 NEWS. But the only new thing is the documentation; a key point is that the feature works in Emacs 26, too. You can try it now: (progn (require 'time-stamp) (time-stamp-string "%q")) So why all this care with the timing of the time-stamp documentation? Compatibility is difficult for time-stamp because people can set time-stamp-pattern/time-stamp-format in their files. This captures the current protocol, and these user files have to be considered when making any change to the time-stamp implementation or documentation. When someone sets time-stamp-pattern/time-stamp-format as a local variable, they are relying on a promise that the next time Emacs (any Emacs) reads that file, the setting will be honored still. Imagine that I don't do it this way, and a user sees a new feature. (Perhaps the new feature is accompanied by a compatibility warning, but the user thinks, "I use only my laptop, which I just upgraded to Emacs 27.1, so this is okay.") They use the new feature in a local-variable setting in their files. Time passes, and they forget they have used this new feature. They give the file to a friend, or they edit it from their work laptop, or they distribute the file on their git repository. By one of these paths, the file ends up getting edited with a different Emacs, say version 24.5. When that old Emacs saves the file, it gets corrupted. Given all the above, are you sure we want to document this now? < Stephen