From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#40813: [PATCH] Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode Date: 24 Apr 2020 11:32:16 -0000 Organization: muc.de e.V. Message-ID: <20200424113216.42884.qmail@mail.muc.de> References: Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="48183"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: tin/2.4.4-20191224 ("Millburn") (FreeBSD/11.3-RELEASE-p3 (amd64)) Cc: 40813@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 24 13:33:12 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwZz-000CQC-MM for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:33:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32784 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwZy-0004Gk-CP for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:33:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41394) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwZq-0004GO-LF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:33:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwZq-0006hM-8B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:33:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:45043) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwZp-0006g3-Rt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:33:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwZp-00063y-Oz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:33:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:33:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 40813-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40813.158772794022999 (code B ref 40813); Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:33:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 40813) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 11:32:20 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56589 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwZ9-0005yj-Mw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:32:19 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:39768 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwZ8-0005wz-2A for 40813@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:32:18 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 42885 invoked by uid 3782); 24 Apr 2020 11:32:16 -0000 In-Reply-To: X-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.bug X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:178908 Archived-At: Hello, Stefan. In article you wrote: > Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > I believe org-mode is vastly more well-known and arguably also more >> > intuitive to users. I'm certain that's not right. Anybody who can use Emacs at all knows outline-mode well enough to use it effectively. >> It is also much larger and heavier. > Is that a problem in practice? Very much so. If these files' modes are changed to org-mode, then sooner or later, org-mode enthusiasts will start filling them up with obscure org-mode features, such that only an "org-mode elite" will be able to edit these files. Or it will cost an inordinate amount of time to learn org-mode each time a non-org contributor needs to amend such a file. Org-mode is difficult to learn and opaque (see discussions of its documentation in other threads). It is thus unsuitable for basic text files. [ .... ] > The main argument is that org-mode will be more familiar to users and > prospective Emacs hackers. I'm certain that's not right. See above. I'm strongly against this change happening. But if it is to happen, it should be drawn to people's attention by having a discussion in emacs-devel. > Best regards, > Stefan Kangas -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).