From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Alessi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#36717: 25.3; greek.el: deprecated vowel+oxia combinations should be replaced with vowel+tonos counterparts Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 11:54:07 +0200 Message-ID: <20190719095407.GB5734@robertalessi.net> References: <87zhlbaf5d.fsf@kiddo.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20190718173252.GA3093@robertalessi.net> <20190718184700.GA4886@robertalessi.net> <20190718203203.GG4886@robertalessi.net> <83tvbiv7dp.fsf@gnu.org> <20190719085824.GA3263@robertalessi.net> <83lfwuv05b.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="62599"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, 36717@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 19 11:55:08 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hoPbY-000G6T-5H for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 11:55:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43646 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoPbW-00085q-Ul for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 05:55:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45089) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoPbT-00085W-JA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 05:55:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hoPbS-0005ge-BO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 05:55:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:46322) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hoPbS-0005gW-7q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 05:55:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoPbS-0007DH-5Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 05:55:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Robert Alessi Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 36717 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 36717-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B36717.156353005327650 (code B ref 36717); Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:55:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 36717) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2019 09:54:13 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55140 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoPae-0007Bt-Ai for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 05:54:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]:41196) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoPac-0007Bl-Nq for 36717@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 05:54:11 -0400 Original-Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D55021A2C54; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 02:54:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Riseup-User-ID: DCF33E1697EB890D17D070464D2F1F6EC7C98C8A8E4108334663AA5DCA661B5E Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 80B6F22347D; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 02:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83lfwuv05b.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:163382 Archived-At: On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:33:52PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > I went through almost all the documents that are listed here: > > https://unicode.org/versions/ (in reverse chronological order), and > > couldn't find any statement of Greek oxia being deprecated in favor of > > tonos, contrary to what is claimed here: > > https://wiki.digitalclassicist.org/Greek_Unicode_duplicated_vowels > > So the basic claim that started this issue is no longer valid? IOW, > this assertion: > > As of 2016, the latest versions of Unicode (as of 2016) have now > formally deprecated and removed the vowel+oxia combinations from the > Greek extended range, leaving only the vowel+tonos from the basic Greek > and Coptic range. > > is not really accurate? I would say so, to say the least, but I am still investigating. What is sure is that tonos originally does not encode the same as oxia. The former encodes a stress, while the latter encodes a pitch. This is undisputable. That said, the fact that the Greek government did decree that tonos shall be the same as oxia (to be taken cautiously, I am not a specialist of modern Greek) surely introduced a lot of confusion. For example, if one makes no distinction between the two, then it becomes harder to analyse large corpuses with a computer. > > One question remains—and I wish to express my gratitude to all of you, > > Robert, Basil and Eli: since assigning vowels with tonos and vowels > > with oxia to the same code points is clearly unacceptable even if the > > glyphs may be identical, is there a way to input tonos and vowels with > > tonos with emacs? I use greek-ibycus4, but if other input methods > > can handle these letters, I would consider any change unnecessary. > > "C-x RET 8" would be the immediate answer, IIUC. Well that is not very friendly... > But I'm still studying the issue, so maybe I'm missing something. Just the same on my side.